What is this?

[Dekka]

Fixed my mate's Maton and he offered me this little guitar in an old beat up case. He was given it by an antique dealer friend years ago.
I'm thinking this is a TERZ but am not sure. It looks very old but aspects of it are confusing.
1. The case looks very old and and has hand made hardware that looks equally as ancient. The timber seems to be done in that "combed" grain finish that was once popular in old houses. The inside appears to have been lined with wallpaper.
2. The tuners look very old but it looks like the headstock may not be not original as it has a mortise joint.
3. The bridge looks like ebony as do the bridge pins.
4. The rosette looks like the shell components in it are the same designs as can be bought today.
5. The body is not bound but has purfling in the top.
6. Someone has refinished it in orange shellac. Not sure of the timber...It is light in colour.

Does anyone recognise the era or, better yet,the maker?

[DarwinStrings]

Nice box, is it made of Oregon? The heel looks like something off a baroque guitar so maybe European influence but the rest looks American pre-war. I don't know what it is and sometimes you can't really know for sure but look around the web at pre-war stuff to see if you can find that rosette again and that will get you a bit closer to knowing what it is Derick.

Jim

[DarwinStrings]

Could the headstock be a "birds beak" join rather than m & t or one of those V shaped scarfs? Martin did headstocks like that at some stage and they also did that type of heel too. Martin used "better" woods though than what looks like maybe birch (maybe even maple)back and sides on that one.

Jim

[lauburu]

A nice little research project which could lead on to a nice little restoration project.
The rosette appears to be very similar to the rosettes on a couple of antique Neopolitan mandolins I have - built c.1900. The MOP designs are similar and the black ring surrounding the MOP appears extensively cracked (crazed?) just like those on the mandolins. I believe the black ring on the mandolins is HHG coloured with lamp black - could be the same technique used here?
Just my tuppence worth - it may be useful.
Miguel

[graham mcdonald]

Probably late 19th century European and likely not Spanish (because of the pin-bridge). Pic of the back of the head/neck join would be useful. I suspect the neck would have originally been painted black. from the look of the slots in the head.

Could be entirely wrong about the origin

cheers

[charangohabsburg]

Probably late 19th century European and likely not Spanish (because of the pin-bridge).

And also because of the heel.

Looking at the bridge shape (if the bridge is the original one) I even would put it somewhere in the 1st half of the 20th century.
Nice guitar.

[Dekka]

I can see black elsewhere on the neck so I reckon the neck was black also.
More pics including what might be the maker's mark inside.... looks like the word "Chook" to my eyes but I'm betting that's wrong.

[Trevor Gore]

Derek, what's the top bracing style?

Not that I'm much help on this sort of thing, but if the cognoscenti here struggle to provide a positive identification, there's a few guys over on Delcamp who are good on this sort of stuff.

[simonm]

Looks very like the "germanic" guitars from 1890's to 1920's approx which came from the the areas around what is today the Czech/German border. There wee two centres of production there that were arch-rivals and build all sorts of instruments for export for export. One area is still an important guitar making area - http://www.museum-markneukirchen.de The other area was depopulated in the aftermath of WWII and a large number of the makers ended up in the new craft village of Bubenreuth near Nürnberg. (Hannabach is one of the families from there).

You see these kinds of guitars turning up in various states of repair on ebay.de. The pearl in mastic or possibly ground up pear wood dust is fairly common and the inlay on the top is also typical although that is often a wood pattern rather than with pearl.

I have also seen a similar kind of shape which came from the French equivalent area (Miracourt or something similar).

Anyway, nice instruments. I assume some sort of ladder bracing. The case is fantastic. Possible more interesting than the guitar.

[DarwinStrings]

Derick, you also mentioned Terz, check the scale length as Terz are around 21 -22 inch and if you can work out what the wood is it might help you find its country, any idea what the wood is on the case?

Jim

[Dekka]

Trevor, it's ladder braced, 3 only: one either side of sound-hole and one behind bridge. There are also shallow convex support-strips lengthwise beside the sound-hole.
Jim, the scale length is 24 3/4" so that would be a parlour, right?
The box is some kind of conifer resembling Oregon but I can't tell for sure.
The closest resembling image I could find on the net was a Martin&Coup but those were fan-braced.
I did see an image of an early Washburn with the exact same tuners.
Simon, I reckon you're spot on with German origin. There were a lot of images with guitars having very similar rosettes, as well as black necks and the "ice-cream cone" neck joint.

[Dekka]

I just found this:-
http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.y ... n7PqDft_wk

[ozwood]

Dekka,

I would love to have a look at that when we catch up, looks like a really nice little instrument.

Cheers,

[DarwinStrings]

Yep that's right too long for a Terz. If it is Oregon then good chance to box was USA but not definitive, there could be a matching European fir.

Jim

[Dekka]

No worries, Paul. It's very intriguing. I'm taking it over to Strato's class this week for a look-see.
Research so far suggests 19th century. Very small brass frets.
It's very light in weight. Has a one piece back. You might have a clue what the b&s wood is. I'm guessing Maple but not sure.
Jim, the bridge looks like the German ones I've seen and the Martin cases were coffins with no bends. There's a photo on the Unofficial Martin site link of a guitar that would have to be from the same maker but the owner doesn't appear to know its origins either.