headstock veneer

jmuller92 · Post by **jmuller92** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:52 am

hey guys,

can i get your opinions on whether u think headstock veneer is necessary or not. I understand that it gives structural improvements, but is it necessary?

cheers

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:51 am

If youre doing a scarf joint on your headstock then the veneer will be necessary.

Without a headstock veneer getting a nice tight fitting nut slot might be tricky.

sebastiaan56 · Post by **sebastiaan56** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:35 am

If you have enough material in your headstock you could cut a slot for the nut and hold it that way. Ultimately I think it is there for aesthetic purposes. Think Fender electric guitar headstocks, no headplate, easy to manufacture automatically....

Rod True · Post by **Rod True** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:53 am

I'm of the belief that yes, you need a headstock veneer and here's why

If you're using a scarfed headstock it's stronger than a solid neck but you get a line right across the face of the headstock. Now this is just an aesthetic thing but adding the veneer just makes it look better, But it also ties the scarfed face of the headstock and the neck together, added strength for the joint.

Now, if you're using a solid neck you'll have short grain of the wood being exposed on the angled headstock. This is not as strong and the long grain which actually makes a solid neck weaker then a scarfed headstock. So the veneer adds strength to the headstock on a solid neck. It also helps to have laminated necks and also backstrapping (veneer on the back of the headstock) to strengthen a one piece neck.

So, IMO a headstock veneer is important just as much as binding the body is important. Overall it's not totally needed but it does have it's merits.

Kim · Post by **Kim** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:03 pm

Considering the structural and eye pleasing benefits to be had from the minimal work involved in gluing on a head stock overlay, why would you want to skip this step anyway? The head stock overlay is one of the few areas on a guitar where you can safely get away with using really wild grained wood such as burl which looks wonderful but would be too unstable to use elsewhere other than the butt wedge and rosette.

Cheers

Kim

hilo_kawika · Post by **hilo_kawika** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:31 pm

I think it's really interesting that folks in this thread use this type of scarf joint, necessitating the use of the headstock veneer primarily for cosmetic purposes in order to cover up the scarf joint.

For nylon stringed instruments, I've always used the reverse of the type of scarf joint discussed above:

because it allowed me to shape the upper portion of the neck more easily and because the strings are nearly always pulling parallel to the grain of the neck wood. And because there's no scarf joint on the headstock, there's no need for the headstock veneer...

aloha,

Dave Hurd

snidermike · Post by **snidermike** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:50 pm

I don't think it's necessary; you don't really even need a nut slot. You can simply butt the nut against the end of the fingerboard. However it's much easier to make the nut when you have a slot for it.

I do think it looks waaaaaaay better to have one. That line of the scarf joint is ugly, which is why i do a veneer on the back as well. I don't like doing the scarf joint the other way either, because then I think you have an ugly line on the back of the neck. Just my opinion, of course. Like Kim said, it's such minimal work, why not do it? I think Rod makes a good point about reinforcing a solid neck too.

Cheers

jmuller92 · Post by **jmuller92** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:57 pm

thanks guys, i think ill opt into using the veneer. do you reckon i could table saw the headstock if its big enough to slice 3mm or so off and just reglue it afterwards? otherwise im veneer hunting

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:03 pm

Are you talking about reducing the thickness of the headstock? I use a block plane for this....doesnt take long but watch for tear ou on one side of the scarf joint. Some people use a Safe-T-Planer in a drill press.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:34 pm

I'm not sure what your trying to describe with the head stock when you want to saw some off. Are you saying that the thickness it too great and need to reduce it some to allow for the veneer that you'll be adding?

If this is the case, then a table saw sounds like a very risky method to me.

A block plane, or hard sanding block with 80 grit paper, or a belt sander with a tilting table will do the trick. My preference is the belt sander with tilting table, but I've used all these methods.

jmuller92 · Post by **jmuller92** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:53 pm

nah i meant to slice a full piece off to reuse as the veneer, but thinking about it it seems like a dumb idea. think ill just buy veneer the old fashioned way lol

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:59 pm

Lot's of places to find a suitable piece of veneer. I slice mine from interesting pieces of wood that I find. I use a bandsaw 'cause I've got one, but a back saw, bow saw, or even a table saw will take a slice off of a block.

The table saw is still a risky tool to be using for this sort of thing though. If you decide to use it, make sure that you have a zero clearance insert, to stop the thin veneer from falling into the throat of the saw. And also cut the veneer (the thin piece) on the side of the blade away from the fence.

jmuller92 · Post by **jmuller92** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:04 pm

haha i won't put my own safety at risk! thats what teachers are for! hehe

yeh thanks heaps for the advice, see what i can scrounge. so theres no good/bad timbers for headstock veneers? as long as it looks pretty?

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:46 pm

Offcuts from the back/sides are an easy way to get a matching headstock veneer. If you don't have anything wide enough from one back half or would prefer a mirrored look to match the rest of the guitar then you can easily joint a bookmatch from both halves.

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:01 pm

Nasty old Gunns produce a nice little veneer sample pack of Aussie woods.

jmuller92 · Post by **jmuller92** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:18 pm

Nasty old gunns? i presumed that was a store lol but i cant find anything on the net. what were u referring to?

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:40 pm

Try here:

http://www.gunnsveneers.com.au/woodcrafts/

josh_cain · Post by **josh_cain** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:41 pm

I'm guessing he means Gunns as in the company who own the Tasmanian Pulp Mill.

josh_cain · Post by **josh_cain** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:42 pm

wrong then hahaha

jmuller92 · Post by **jmuller92** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:45 pm

yeh thanks for the link, so how does it work? do you just buy a small pack? how big is a leaf of timber?

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:00 pm

The pieces in the pack I got were about a foot square. Note this stuff is fairly thin so youd use it for the layers underneath the top veneer which would a bit thicker than the stuff in these packs. I use offcuts of opp grade IRW from Allied Lutherie for the top veneer. I glue up the veneer sandwich on the headstcok and the plane/sand the top veneer down to about 1.5mm thick.

Check out Tim Spittle for headstock veneers......if he doesnt have any advertised Im sure he can run you up a few pieces of suitable material.

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:10 am

Getting the scarf joint such that I dont have the join showing on back of headstock is one my archilles heels......anyone here care to throw up a tute of making a steel string scarf jointed neck with veneer on back of headstock?

sebastiaan56 · Post by **sebastiaan56** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:03 pm

jmuller92 wrote:yeh thanks for the link, so how does it work? do you just buy a small pack? how big is a leaf of timber?

Send me a PM, I'll see what I have hanging around the kitchen floor,

jeffhigh · Post by **jeffhigh** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:43 pm

I have not done a scarf jointed headstock yet, but Jim William's book shows a way of doing a scarf that starts at the back of the neck exactly behind the nut position, then proceeding to the front face of the headstock.
This does not leave the joint partway along the back of the headstock.

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