mixing magnetics and piezo (K & K DCPP maybe)

Talk about musical instrument construction, setup and repair.

Moderators: kiwigeo, Jeremy D

Post Reply
User avatar
DarwinStrings
Blackwood
Posts: 1877
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:27 pm
Location: Darwin

mixing magnetics and piezo (K & K DCPP maybe)

Post by DarwinStrings » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:46 am

I have a project on the drawing board at the moment and though you mob might like to input. It is a lap steel guitar (semi-acoustic) and the customer wants a magnetic pickup (humbucker) at the neck as well as a piezo under saddle. The way I would have gone about it is to have two outputs and send the magnetic to a amp and the piezo to the desk having volume/tone on the guitar. Although this is ok for him he would prefer to be able to mix the signals on the instrument and send both to a amp as a mono signal.

I am looking at the K & K dual channel pro preamp and was wondering if you had a weight on it Bob, also if anyone else has a circuit that I could make myself or perhaps a different brand of preamp/mixer that they are familiar with I would love to hear about it.

Jim

User avatar
Bob Connor
Admin
Posts: 3132
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:43 pm
Location: Geelong, Australia
Contact:

Post by Bob Connor » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:29 am

Funny Jim - I'm working on that exact idea for an acoustic used as a stage instrument.

K & K mini coupled with a K & K under saddle pickup going to a mixer - plus a single coil up at the neck going through a seperate output to an amp. No soundhole.

Kim has one of the K & K dual channel preamps. I'm sure he'll weigh it for you.

It's kinda messy to me to be trying to mix an acoustic and electric pickup into one input of a desk - two totally different sounds just won't work EQ wise in one channel. At least it wouldn't work for me.
Bob, Geelong
_______________________________________

Mainwaring and Connor Guitars

User avatar
ozziebluesman
Blackwood
Posts: 1529
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:12 am
Location: Townsville
Contact:

Post by ozziebluesman » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:45 am

G'day Jim,

Being a fan of lap slide I have done quite a bit of experimenting with lap slide design. I've built seven with various pickup placements. I found the placing a humbucker about in the middle of the scale gave you most weissenborn type sound. This was in a solid body and no chambers! Cole Clark build a Violap which is chambered, has a humbucker positioned in the fretboard and the bridge. The wiring system I think has two volume controls allowing you to mix both pickups. It also has a peizo attached to the bridge that is also in the sound mix.

In live use, (I have first hand experience) it performed well with only small problem with feedback under high volume level. Tone wise it has it's own tone and you could say similar to a weissenborn copy with a pickup when using the fretboard pickup only. It lacks the nice percussive feature that you get with an acoustic weissenborn copy which to me is the sound of a vintage weissenborn lap slide guitar. But then again you can make it scream too under distorsion! The acoustic weiss will just feedback under high volume levels. I didn't get to try the pezio through a PA and the humbucker through a good valve amp. The Violap is a good design! Check it out!

Weissenborn copy players like Xavier Rudd, Ash grunwald and Jeff Lang use a small valve amp. Jeff in particular has an ols Golden Tone 12 watt valve amp from the sixties. Great sound! Xavier uses a bit bigger Fender Deville I think! So the sounds are then put through the stage PA system.

Hope this helps

Cheers

Alan

User avatar
Kim
Admin
Posts: 4376
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:32 pm
Location: South of Perth WA

Post by Kim » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:21 pm

Jim,

9v battery inclusive, the K&K Dual Channel PRO Preamp weighs in at 293 grams. Excluding the channel gain knobs and the belt clip, the physical dimensions of the unit are 91mm long x 75mm wide x 36mm deep.

For the standard unit, if you include the channel gain knobs and belt clip add 15mm to the length taking it to a total 106mm to allow for the knobs and 7mm to the depth, now 43mm deep to allow for the belt clip.

Hope that helps.

Cheers

Kim

User avatar
DarwinStrings
Blackwood
Posts: 1877
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:27 pm
Location: Darwin

Post by DarwinStrings » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:28 am

Thanks Guys. I had a chat with him last night and he agrees that the piezo to desk and mag to amp is the best sound so I'll build with two outputs and he will add the K&K DCPP separately in situations where he only has a amp.

He doesn't like the style of the Violap Alen he has played it though and I this is where he got the idea from but he wants something "different".

I he chooses to go with the K&K rather than some other brand should I get in touch with you Bob for price etc?

Jim

User avatar
Nick
Blackwood
Posts: 3641
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:20 am
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Contact:

Post by Nick » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:46 am

Newbie to this forum & it's good to be here, will properly introduce myself properly in another post but having just faced the same problem, I couldn't resist posting my own experience.
I have just recently finished a commision for a Selmer style guitar (pictured as my avatar). The customer also wanted a magnetic (active) in the neck position and K&K's under the soundboard at the moustache ends. After some too-ing & fro-ing we finally decided on two volume controls (other options consisted of a blend pot or no onboard controls at all and doing it at the amp). I mounted an EMG 'S' active at the end of the fingerboard & K&K pure Macaferris superglued under the soundboard. I also used an onboard Fishman preamp/endpin which has a stereo output. The tip connection runs through the preamp and the ring leaves the signal unamplified, it also has the ability to run a volume pot on the preamped (tip) signal. Both the preamp and EMG use the same onboard 9V battery.
I was really pleased with the end result (as was the customer) each pickup is volume controlled so it can be run seperately or blended together in varying amounts. The two signals are run through a stereo Y cable which allows each pickup system to be patched into two seperate channels on an amp. The mix of the piezo/acoustic sound and the mellow magnetic neck pickup sounds great, so good infact that I'm building another guitar for myself using almost the same setup (using an EMG neck Tele pickup instead of the strat one).
Just another idea to add to the pot?
Last edited by Nick on Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Jesus Loves You."
Nice to hear in church but not in a Mexican prison.

User avatar
kiwigeo
Admin
Posts: 10582
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:57 pm
Location: Adelaide, Sth Australia

Post by kiwigeo » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:55 am

Welcome to the forum Nick...good to see another Mainlander in here. Nice Selmer style instrument in the avatar. Any chance of more pics of same.

Cheers Martin

User avatar
DarwinStrings
Blackwood
Posts: 1877
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:27 pm
Location: Darwin

Post by DarwinStrings » Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:10 pm

Hi Nick and welcome. Thanks for posting that bit of info, sounds great to me.

Jim

User avatar
Nick
Blackwood
Posts: 3641
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:20 am
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Contact:

Post by Nick » Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:11 pm

kiwigeo wrote:Welcome to the forum Nick...good to see another Mainlander in here. Nice Selmer style instrument in the avatar. Any chance of more pics of same.

Cheers Martin
Thanks for the welcome Martin. Good to see an ex-kiwi on the forum, I've looked around and there doesn't seem to be a great presence here of us lot from over the ditch.
Thanks also for the interest, I'll post some more pics in an introductory post, I didn't want to highjack this one :oops:
I also make Archtops so I'll post some pics of them also.

Thanks also Jim. Hopefully I can add at least some value to the forum :?:
"Jesus Loves You."
Nice to hear in church but not in a Mexican prison.

User avatar
Dennis Leahy
Blackwood
Posts: 872
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:32 am
Location: Duluth, MN, US
Contact:

Post by Dennis Leahy » Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:04 pm

Hey Jim,

Are your component choices set in stone?

I'm going to be doing a combo of a Shadow NanoMag (stuck to the end of the fretboard on a guitar with an adjustable neck and an offset soundhole), along with a K&K Western Mini setup on the underside of the soundboard.

Still haven't figured out the preamp, switching, volume stuff (may be all off the guitar.)

Anyway, I thought I'd throw that combination out there and see if it sounds interesting.

Dennis

{edit} Oh, and I'm thinking of coming out of the guitar with either two 1/4" cables, or a single 1/4" stereo cable. The stereo cable might be a better option to the board (Y-splitter near the board, I guess), based on what Bob is saying, rather than mixing to mono signal at the instrument.
Another damn Yank!

User avatar
kiwigeo
Admin
Posts: 10582
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:57 pm
Location: Adelaide, Sth Australia

Post by kiwigeo » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:18 pm

Nick,

You havent worked at any of Charlie Jemmett's businesses have you? I vaguely recall Charlie mentioning your name last time I visited him at Music Works on Colombo Street.

Cheers Martin

User avatar
DarwinStrings
Blackwood
Posts: 1877
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:27 pm
Location: Darwin

Post by DarwinStrings » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:37 pm

Nothing set in stone yet Dennis. It all helps thanks.

Jim

User avatar
Nick
Blackwood
Posts: 3641
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:20 am
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Contact:

Post by Nick » Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:27 am

kiwigeo wrote:Nick,

You havent worked at any of Charlie Jemmett's businesses have you? I vaguely recall Charlie mentioning your name last time I visited him at Music Works on Colombo Street.

Cheers Martin
Hi Martin,
No I've never actually worked at Charlie's, I've known him since he was in Cashel street trading as CJ'S. I used to hang out in the shop with his repair guy rather than with the wannabe players and numerous versions of stairway to heaven that echoed through the shop! That was when I first got interested in all things guitars many moons ago. But I've done repairs (since he stopped having a fulltime repair guy)and resprays for him for a number of years and he's done me the courtesy of word of mouth advertising. Top guy.
"Jesus Loves You."
Nice to hear in church but not in a Mexican prison.

User avatar
kiwigeo
Admin
Posts: 10582
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:57 pm
Location: Adelaide, Sth Australia

Post by kiwigeo » Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:34 pm

Nick O wrote: But I've done repairs (since he stopped having a fulltime repair guy)and resprays for him for a number of years and he's done me the courtesy of word of mouth advertising. Top guy.
Yes Charlie is truely the musicians friend around Christchurch. I turned up at Musicworks a few years back to say gidday to Charlie. I hadnt seen him for 20 years but he recognised me straightaway and remembered my name.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 104 guests