Waterthin CA

jeffhigh · Post by **jeffhigh** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:08 pm

Want some really thin and penetrating for flooding an abalone rosette.
Any brands/ suppliers you can recommend
Thanks
Jeff

Kim · Post by **Kim** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:26 pm

Loctite available from Bunnies is about the best on the market here in AU.

Cheers

Kim

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:08 pm

I use the Hot Stuff CA glues.....they come in three viscosities. Im pretty sure Carbatec carry them. Macwood here in Adelaide certainly stock them.

Loctite are a reputable brand and if Kim says their CA glue is ok then it must be ok.

One tip if youre flooding CA glue anywhere near a spruce top.....shellac the rosette channel and immediate surrounding top to reduce risk of CA staining.

Kim · Post by **Kim** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:29 pm

kiwigeo wrote:
One tip if youre flooding CA glue anywhere near a spruce top.....shellac the rosette channel and immediate surrounding top to reduce risk of CA staining.

This is a MUST do. Good call Martin.

Stu · Post by **Stu** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:42 pm

Just to clarify what Martin and Kim said..............

Are you shellacing just the top and not the complete rout ?
Not sure how far I need to go to safeguard the risk of staining
but still maintain good CA adhesion.
Shellac doesn't affect the mechanical properties of CA at all ?

I'm asking because I've never done it on a rosette .......yet want things to be clear just how far to go with the shellac process.
Also I'm tipping the same rules apply when using CA for plastic binding
around geets. (He says with a half arsed Exclamation mark

)

I use the same gear as Martin for other areas in electric builds and I get mine from Carba-tec.
Thanks for the heads-up with the Bunno's loctite, Kim .
If it meets your stringent requirements, then it's a seal of approval.

cheers, Stu

Bob Connor · Post by **Bob Connor** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:46 pm

Shellac the whole rout Stew. It'll get in the end grain quicker than a rat up a drainpipe and leave the top liooking like a dingo cocked it's leg on it.

When I'm doing rosettes I'll shellac the top 3 inches out from the rosette trench.

I've noticed that it will do the same to Maple so I'd be careful with any light coloured wood.

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:48 pm

Just shellac the inlay channel and immediate area of the top. No need to do the whole top. All youre doing is providing a barrier against the CA wicking out from the rosette and staining the spruce top.

As far as I know shellac won't compromise adhesive properties of CA.

As an aside shellac is also handy when routing rosette and binding channels...it stiffens up the grain and reduces tear out from the router.

Stu · Post by **Stu** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:52 pm

Thanks for the speedy responses guys.

I'd just finished doing a bound Tele f-hole and found a little staining
in the Qld walnut where the CA had crept up the grain a little, but considering it's such a dark timber it seems to have cleaned up
with some block sanding.

The shellac tip is taken on board and about to be deployed.

cheers, Stu

Kim · Post by **Kim** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:10 pm

Stu,

It's your call but if using plastic bindings Weld-bond do a great glue especially for this or you can make some fine shavings from your bindings and dissolve them in acetone and this will work fine as well. The only reason I mention this is because I would not feel comfortable in trusting CA bonding with flexible plastic. I suspect that in the long run, the brittleness of CA may not match well with the flexibility of the plastic bindings and they may separate under the finish.

I have nothing but a hunch to back that statement up, but as I understand, most use the Weldbond product to apply plastic bindings. I have found that as long as you leave 'any' thinner based glue for a few days to vent off 'before' you scrape back, you will avoid any sink back completely.

Cheers M8

Kim

Bob Connor · Post by **Bob Connor** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:20 pm

I totally agree with your comments on CA glue and plastic bindings Kim.

We had to rout off some tortoiseshell bindings a while back that were glued with CA.

They sort of shattered off in 4-5 inch lengths as soon as the router touched them. The CA doesn't seem to have very great impact strength so I've been suss on the stuff ever since.

We usually use wood bindings so we've switched to Titebond after seeing that.

I'll still use CA to tack in the mitres around the end graft but other than that the only place I'll use it is in rosettes.

Funnily those bindings were routed off due to CA staining around a rosette.

Stu · Post by **Stu** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:21 pm

Thanks for the comprehensive rundown, Kim. Much appreciated.
I use weldbond for plastic to wood as it's the preferred type for that application but have used CA when I've found the need to wick extra adhesive into certain tight areas, which is where I have found the odd
darker section.

What I tend to do is use Acetone as much as possible when joining plastic to plastic as the melt in is second to none.

Everything has a steep learning curve when it comes to lutherie !!

cheers, Stu

Kim · Post by **Kim** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:24 pm

Sounds like your right on top of it Stu

You must be getting close to posting yet another nice axe, looking forward to it.

Cheers

Kim

Hesh1956 · Post by **Hesh1956** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:38 pm

Yeah I have to say I agree with Kim too as far as CA for bindings goes...

I have two issues with CA for bindings. First if using hardwoods thin CA can give the impression of a good bond but it's not until you go to remove the bindings that you learn that they do indeed come off in long segments indicating that the bond may not have been so good. Thin CA requires an excellent wood-to-wood joint where gap filling medium or even slow CA seems to hold hard woods better IMHO.

Second if you do have a gap thin CA will seal both wood surfaces with the gap open. This makes it more difficult to fill the gap since what ever you use will be trying to stick to CA sealed wood.

And yes the staining can be an unpleasant surprise too.

Believe it or not I am now using CA myself for more and more things having learned that in the repair business CA is a life saver. But for bindings I agree with Kim and Bob and would use a Weld-on type cement for plastics and Titebond for wood.

jeffhigh · Post by **jeffhigh** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:28 am

Yes , I was aware of the need to seal the endgrain, but it does not hurt to mention it.

I would love to us the hotstuff glue but it would probably cost me $40 by the time cabatec mail it to me and be off before I need to use it again.
If the Loctite is thin enough to penetrate, I will go for it.

I am actually going to use plastic (tortoiseshell) binding on this one so the advice on this is timely.
Is the weldbond plastic glue available at Bunnings? I used a bottle of their white glue a few years back.
Jeff

Localele · Post by **Localele** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:31 am

When you want to tack the first part of the bindings in place with a quick hold just apply the Titebond and then put a drop of CA over it for the tack.Quickly push this on and hold for a few seconds while the CA goes off.Doesn't take long as the moisture of the Titebond accelerates the CA.Only use a small drop of CA so it doesn't squeeze out of the joint.Cheers.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:02 pm

Localele wrote:When you want to tack the first part of the bindings in place with a quick hold just apply the Titebond and then put a drop of CA over it for the tack.Quickly push this on and hold for a few seconds while the CA goes off.Doesn't take long as the moisture of the Titebond accelerates the CA.Only use a small drop of CA so it doesn't squeeze out of the joint.Cheers.

See, that's why we keep Michael around.

I use the Loctite thin glue most times. I found our local Coles was clearing out a rack of it at 1/4 the regular price, so bought up all their stock.

Also seal the end grain on Cedar and Sequoia. I've learnt the hard way

Hippety Hop · Post by **Hippety Hop** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:06 pm

I've been using Flash superglue, which I get from Hobbytools Aust, or Brunel Hobbies.
When it goes thick - the solvent must evaporate out through the plastic or somehow - I just top the bottle up with acetone, give it a quick shake, and it's back to normal. I always give it a squirt of accelerator whether it needs it or not.

(Wasn't that what the nun said to the bishop?)

Note: Hobbytools Aust also has jewellers saw blades and diamond tipped dremel bits.

Hank · Post by **Hank** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:12 am

Hey guys, wish i'd found this site before i'd used cheap chinese CA to glue my rosette, it was like thinners and left a yellow stain on the Qld kauri top, The shellac method sounds like the way to go, what about a thin coat of hide glue? Am a newbie and this is my first guitar, today hopefully will see the bridge placed and then ready to start polishing,

thanks again guys

Cheers

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:26 pm

Hey, welcome to the forum Hank. I see this is your first post.

I've used thin hide glue to size the end grain on a rosette before and it seems to work well. I had it water thin and applied a few coats. Letting it soak in and dry between applications.

I'd even seen some tests showing that hide glue sizing actually made a stronger bond, but that I'd take with a grain of salt.

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