Neck Joint Dilemma

[PHANTOM]

Hi there everyone I recently finished my first acoustic and have started my second and third simultaneously - on the first one the book that I followed said the neck should be angled so that a straight edge sat along the neck is 2 to 3mm above the sound board at the bridge position. I did this, had three attempts at the dovetail neck join which was a pain because it meant the angle at the neck body join was not 90deg. So the jig I made had to be adjustable. If this angle is necessary how do you get away with the spanish heel method, as far as I can tell the neck block is part of the neck and is straight. All the you tube neck joint videos just show the neck being joined straight onto the neck block with a 90deg neck body joint this would make the dovetail join a hell of a lot easier. Any advice would be appreciated on this method or any other methods anyone has had success with. I know Martin uses the spanish heel method and Allen has got his adjustable neck method so do you guys angle the neck or is it straight?

[Bob Connor]

I's usually a 1.5 degree angle back. But that'd depend on how much dome you've got on the top.

Classical builders will put a shim under the neck when they are glueing the back and top on to achieve that angle with a Spanish heel.

I'm pretty sure Martin aren't using a Spanish Heel. My D-18 has a dovetail joint. They may be using mortise and Tenon joints on some of the cheaper new models but the dovetail has always been their stock joint.

[Kim]

Maybe I am reading this wrong cause I am feeling lazy right now but I know that some classical builders are of the school that you tapper the neck angle compensation into the fretboard.

Cheers

Mr Ying

[kiwigeo]

My clasicals are built with a slight positive rake on the neck. To get this you plane in a ramp on the neck section of the workboard. The offset at the nut is about 2-3mm referenced to the main body area of the workboard.

For cutting your tenon on my steel strings I use a Woolson jig....easiest way to get the rake right.

Cutting a dovetail is a pain the first few times you try it but its a challenge and I love challenges. If you stuff it up you just glue on some shims and start again withy the sanding sticks.

[Stephen Kinnaird]

I've never done a neck joint using the Spanish heel configuration.
So I've wondered the same question you raise.
Could you angle the slots on the heel to achieve the 1.5 degree angle when the sides are inserted???

Classical guys, what say?

Steve

[graham mcdonald]

There are a couple of different approaches to classical neck angles. One is to kick the neck forward about 3mm at the nut and keep constant fretboard thickness (maybe tapering the bottom of it over the body, though some don't!) or keep the neck in the same plane as the body and taper the fretboard thickness. The aim with either method is to keep a bridge height of 9-10mm, much the same as a steel string.

For a steel string with a Spanish heel, I think the best way is to do it as in Jim Williams' book, where the neck and the soundboard to the bridge are in the same plane clamped to the workboard , and doming in the soundboard lifts the edges of the soundboard off the workboard and is supported by shims. Any other way would seem to use a lot of guesswork in having everything line up.

Alex Willis, in his book, uses a domed workboard and then kicks the neck back by 4mm at the nut using a Spanish heel construction, but as Bob said in an earlier post, the neck angle is going to depend on the amount of doming at the bridge.

Bolt-on necks can be a lot more forgiving.

cheers

graham

[PHANTOM]

Thanks for that. Bolt on neck sounds good after the drama I had on my first build. I will just play around with some scrap untill I sort the dovetail method out. Be ready for a lot more questions in the future. Thanks again.

[Allen]

For my non-adjustable necks, using a bolt on mortice and tenon, I've found between 1.5 and 2 degrees is about right. I tried a Williams type jig to cut the neck, but now I'm doing them on the table saw. Easy to dial in the exact degree, and in the case of the Ukes with a non flat neck block area, requiring a compound cut, it's almost a no-brainer.

Also, after a conversation with Michael Connor, I drew up the instrument that I am building at the moment, instead of measuring off the plans. The plans are not the same as the drafted up one I did. Probably something to do with the printing process, but I'd recommend you don't rely on them to get angles and measurements from by direct readings.

[kiwigeo]

Its all covered fairly well in Courtnall's book 'Making Master Guitars"

[PHANTOM]

Thanks for that i just bought that book on ebay have only hade it a week or so looks like this weekend i will have to do some research. I had a quick look at it and it looks great.

[James Mc]

The way I was taught was to put a very slight angle on the side cut of the spanish heel (cut from the centre of the squared pencil line to the edge of it) then shape and thickness the fretboard to match the neck and body. My first attempt didn't work all that well and I had a fretboard that was about 6mm thick at the nut and 3.5mm at the sound hole.

Cheers
James

[kiwigeo]

My understanding is the positive rake is designed to achieve the same end purpose as neck relief dialed into a steel string via the truss rod. My fretboard is same thickness along its length to maintain the effect of the positive rake.