Some slow progress pics

Serge · Post by **Serge** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:32 am

Thanks bro!

Dave White · Post by **Dave White** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:47 am

Serge,

Your building chops are coming on in leaps and bounds - lots of stylish touches there. I love the snakewood, top purfling and rosette. Big soundhole could mean big sound!!

Serge · Post by **Serge** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:13 pm

Thanks Dave, i appreciate that, i'm encouraged by how the box reacts to my voice right now too but i just realized something, if i were to put a soundport on the side, i wonder how much it would affect the sound of that tiny box with an already huge soundhole????

What would be your take on that Dave?

Thanks

Serge

Dave White · Post by **Dave White** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:15 pm

Serge,

I think if you put a small egg shaped sound port on the upper bout - like the one on my parlour - it should be fine. I always find that the guitar "breathes" much more freely and sounds more open and full with the port in.

What is the box depth and lower and upper bout widths?

Hesh1956 · Post by **Hesh1956** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:06 am

Sorry for a bit of a high-jack here Serge.

Dave your comment about sound ports is very interesting. Do you think that the tonal benefit extends to a listener in say the audience or just the player?

Thanks.

Dave White · Post by **Dave White** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:18 am

Hesh1956 wrote:Sorry for a bit of a high-jack here Serge.

Dave your comment about sound ports is very interesting. Do you think that the tonal benefit extends to a listener in say the audience or just the player?

Thanks.

Hesh,

I think the effects on the forward projection are a lot more subtle than the impact to the player. I have based this on asking Suzy - who is pretty dialled in as a listener and player - to tell me what she hears when I play with the port covered and then uncover it.

As a builder I feel a real difference in the response of the top and "breathing" of the whole instrument when the soundport is cut - it just feels more alive. As a player I can feel this too but more importantly can hear a lot more. This makes my playing better as I can tune in to the instrument a lot more and from this the listener gets a benefit too.

I have put soundports in guitars from travel size up to baritone and harp guitars, and also in guitar-bouzouki's and guitar-citterns and every single time the instrument has improved.

I am a great believer in these and it's the closest to a "free lunch" that we will get as builders - just cut a small hole and . . .

Hesh1956 · Post by **Hesh1956** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:41 am

Great explanation Dave!

What I really picked up on is how you qualify your thoughts "as a builder", "as a player", and then give the listener's perspective.

This "as a builder" perspective is what I am most interested in. It's the intuitive feel that we develop over time when working "with" these incredible instruments that lets us have some idea what the end result of a change may be. Another way to say this is that one develops a "feel" for guitar building over time.

Thanks Dave - I will have to try a sound port.

Serge · Post by **Serge** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:41 am

WOW, Talk about receiving more than what you've bargained for!

Thanks a lot Dave, i am not close to the shop now but i will take the measurements after work and bring them on here, sounds like i will have my soundport after all, i did one on no 3 which was an SJ and loved the breathing response as you've described, it was really obvious in the difference it made if covered or not so i'll now see what it does on a smaller size guitar with a huge soundhole, way cool!

Best

Serge

Serge · Post by **Serge** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:57 pm

Dave White wrote:Serge,

What is the box depth and lower and upper bout widths?

There you go Dave, here are the measurements that i have

Lower bout : 4"
Upper bout : 3 1/2"

TIA

Serge

Serge · Post by **Serge** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:01 pm

While i got you guys, i would have another question, on such a small scale length( 24.9"), would it be ok not to have a truss rod or is it imperative?

I'm asking because all i have is 2 truss rods for 25.34"

Thanks again

Serge

Tom Morici · Post by **Tom Morici** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:00 pm

Serge,

A 24.9" scale is only 1/2" shorter than a 25.34" (25.4) scale. This is only about 5 lbs less of string pull, if you are using light gauge strings. Yes the 12 fret neck is a bit stiffer than a 14 fret neck but in time the neck can still bow forward. Many of the old parlour guitars I have repaired over the years have had this forward bow in the neck, some did not. If you wanted to skip the truss rod, I would put a pair of CF bars in for added stiffness.
Given the amount of time that go's into a build, I would add a truss rod.
The ability to adjust the neck, sure has its value.

Tom

Dave White · Post by **Dave White** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:45 am

Serge,

I think you will be OK with a small soundport. What is the width of the lower bout - around 15"?

As for the truss-rod I agree with Tom. I would put one in and I always use cf rods on either side as well - not so much for stiffness but for the elimination of "dead spots" and to help all of the notes played up the fretboard to have equal volume.

I know that in his small Ladder Braced guitars John How goes for lightness and just uses cf rods without a truss-rod.

Serge · Post by **Serge** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:45 am

Dave White wrote:Serge,

I think you will be OK with a small soundport. What is the width of the lower bout - around 15"?

As for the truss-rod I agree with Tom. I would put one in and I always use cf rods on either side as well - not so much for stiffness but for the elimination of "dead spots" and to help all of the notes played up the fretboard to have equal volume.

I know that in his small Ladder Braced guitars John How goes for lightness and just uses cf rods without a truss-rod.

Thanks Dave, the lower bout width is 13 1/2 ", pretty small box i might say.

One last question, is it possible to buy CF material in a hardware store and cut to length? Or do i really have to order premade stuff from StewMac or LMI ?

Thanks for all that input mates, i truly appreciate that.

regards

Serge

Dave White · Post by **Dave White** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:45 am

Serge,

You probably will still be Ok with a soundport, just don't make it too big. You can always make a plug to stop it up again if you don't like it

The port in the top upper bout has least impact on the overall forward projected guitar sound according to Al C. Your guitar is around the same size as my Cuban Mahogany Parlour but yours has a slightly longer scale length. The soundhole in mine was 94mm diameter (3.7").

CF is pretty specialist stuff. Los Alamos Composites are, I think, the suppliers for Stew Mac's cf rods and sell it directly for cheaper prices.

Serge · Post by **Serge** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:47 pm

Many many thanks Dave bro, i will then buy a truss rod from Shane and go along with the soundport on that one too! Can;t wait to have them strings on!

I truly appreciate your help Dave! :bh

Serge

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Some slow progress pics

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