Advice wanted for tools of the trade for a newbie

Talk about musical instrument construction, setup and repair.

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willcall
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Re: Advice wanted for tools of the trade for a newbie

Post by willcall » Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:40 am

Puff wrote:Will, would not a lot less than $250 US get you a reasonable, local, no longer wanted, guitar having all the parts you are currently looking at. You would also have a ready reference for how things go together and you could flog off what you didn't use for your build as spare parts at the end of the exercise.
Good point!
I have thought about this before but have obviously forgotten about it.

I currently have a Strat copy SAMICK in Left hand that I could use as a template for measuring off and could use some of the parts also.
I have considered selling it to fund the parts purchase but would probably only get $100 for it.

Will

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Re: Advice wanted for tools of the trade for a newbie

Post by willcall » Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:40 am

Kim wrote:Consumables $X
Finish $X

Cheers

Kim

Woops, forgot about those.

Will

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Re: Advice wanted for tools of the trade for a newbie

Post by willcall » Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:03 pm

Some more pics.
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Re: Advice wanted for tools of the trade for a newbie

Post by John Maddison » Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:17 pm

Cool lookin' Fret Press! :shock:
fret press.jpg
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Re: Advice wanted for tools of the trade for a newbie

Post by jeffhigh » Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:24 pm

will probably cut the neck in half

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Re: Advice wanted for tools of the trade for a newbie

Post by willcall » Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:26 pm

jeffhigh wrote:will probably cut the neck in half
Yeah, it probably would. It is a metal bender powered by a compressor so it would probably crush the neck in an instant.

Thought it may be usefull for clamping or something.

Will

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Re: Advice wanted for tools of the trade for a newbie

Post by Matt Bach » Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:46 pm

I'm thinking your $100 towards a premade wiring harness could be better spent on an adjustable temp soldering station, then you can do your own wiring forever after. The actual components for the greasebucket circuit shouldn't cost much over $30 even for CTS stuff. I used to think I was terrible at soldering, but once you get a good adjustable station (and one with different tips) and practice a bit, it becomes very easy (and rewarding).

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Re: Advice wanted for tools of the trade for a newbie

Post by willcall » Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:12 am

Puff wrote:For greasebucket stuff Harmony Central has a good thread with Fender diagrams but is that the issue here?
Will this is the grumpy old bastard down the road and across the ditch talking.
A decent weatherproof workspace. A solid as hell bench. Great lighting. Clean and sharpen all your hand tools. Lots of info via Google on all of the aforementioned. Don't sell the Samick. "Don't try to recreate a 1966 Caddy using GM's factory replacement parts department - haunt the wrecker's yards."
Were I in your shoes I would be getting the workspace and tools in hand up to the mark and then dismantling the Samick or a cheapie to really figure what additional tools/implements are good to do what and prioritise them as per your budget.
I have never bought a thing from Stewmac but I find their catalogue a continual source of ideas and inspiration for my number eight thinking. I guess the recent thread on pattern makers' vice price comparison sums it up for ready-built shoppers but I made mine from the guts of a couple of Black and Decker Workmates thrown out in the local annual inorganic rubbish collection and bits of scrap angle. That's me - I enjoy making things to make instruments/things as much as I like making instruments/things.
But first is a good place to do it and the gear to do it. Should you choose to accept this mission ......
Bonaventure
Well said.

I have been thinking of late that my first priority is to clean up the work shed/stations.
My second is to recondition any tools that have, fit for the job.
Third, buy good tools cheaply when possible.
Fourth, use the samick as a template to make templates for neck and fretboard construction
Fifth, buy some timber
Sixth, buy the materials and parts.
Seventh, take time off work to build a guitar.

Will

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Which power tools to go for?

Post by willcall » Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:59 am

Hi all, I have been looking around at used routers and table saws and would like to know which brands I should look for and stay away from.

Also, should I be looking at a router or a 'trimmer'

http://www.sydneytools.com.au/shopexd.a ... medium=cpc

Will

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Re: Advice wanted for tools of the trade for a newbie

Post by kiwigeo » Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:59 pm

I've got a fleet of routers and lam trimmers but my work horses are a British made Trend T5 router and a Porter Cable 7310 Laminate trimmer I got from LMI some time ago (no longer stocked).

As far as the Makitas go.....if you can find an older Japanese made machine the quality of build is a bit better than the modern largely Chinese made machines. Some of the older Bosch machines are German made and a bit more robust than the modern stuff.

Ozito...forget these. I bought one at Bunnings and after turning it on once I binned it.....it had alot in common with a Qantas A380 Rolls Royce engine about to shit itself.

The bigger machines are probably overkill for most luthiery applications but they're handy in a router table or for hogging out tenons on mahogany necks.

When buying these machines the important things to check are bearing play and also check that the depth stops don't slip. Nothing worse than routing a rosette channel and then suddenly having the depth stop slip and ending up with a nicely routed hole in your master grade top.
Martin

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Re: Advice wanted for tools of the trade for a newbie

Post by willcall » Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:06 pm

Hi all.

I have been trying to find a good set of fretting tools.
I know about the 'essential fretting kit' at Stewmac but was wondering if people could suggest individual tools that I can hunt down and accumulate.

I found this one for a few bucks less.

http://www.lmii.com/carttwo/thirdproduc ... etting+Kit

Cheers, Will

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Re: Advice wanted for tools of the trade for a newbie

Post by Allen » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:14 am

Most of all that can be found or substituted from local suppliers even in the smallest of towns. I've bought that exact hammer at a local tool shop less the StewMac logo. I've also seen them in Bunnings. A fret rocker can be made from any short lengths of steel or alloy that you can lap straight and smooth. I know people that have cut up a heavy duty steel ruler into lengths suitable for the task. End cutters are end cutters. You can find them in various sizes and even flush cut if you look hard enough, though those ones from LMI aren't nor are the ones I use. You can get them at any tool supply shop along with the 3 corner file.

The only tool that is rather difficult to find is the fret files themselves.
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Kim
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Re: Advice wanted for tools of the trade for a newbie

Post by Kim » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:54 pm

Agree with Allen, crowning file aside, the LMI kit is made up of basic tools and the Stewmac kit is much the same so all of this stuff is available locally AND secondhand in best quality and far cheaper from swapmeets etc. Doing that will save you the money you will need for a decent set of nut files, Stewmac set of double sided files are pretty good, but similar are available from Girard Gilet and he stocks the original Hosco (Ibanez) nut files which Stewies had copied way back.

There are chinese versions available from Epay for less money but these are a pretty good quality tool.

Image

http://guitarwoods.com.au/catalog/produ ... cts_id=139

I do recommend the Stewmac off-set 'diamond' fret crowning file. These are a good tool worthy of freight cost from USA but they are not cheap, but then nothing worth while is. 150 grit cuts real fast, 300 gives a finish to the crown that only needs a light rub with 400 grit before the buff and polish finish the job..If you are new at this or only do occasional work, get the 300 grit only because once the metal is off, you can't stick it back on.

Image

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting_su ... _File.html

For an example of what you can do without, Stewmac do a nut and saddle vice, its a good tool but its heavy and would cost heaps to freight to AU

Image

To save money you can achieve the same from a standard vice by simply making a pair of inserts out of plate which extend above the standard jaws to keep them out of the way and have a 45 degree chamfer at the working edge as in the image above. You can even embed magnets to into the plate to hold them in place if you like..point is much of this stuff can be done as good, if not better than the 'lutherie specific' tools with simple work-arounds. You just need to think more about the tools 'function' and less about branding and marketing hype.

I will add that aside from the diamond fret crowning files, there are a few other candidates from lutherie supply outlets whicht fit the task at hand well enough to be worth while adding to the box and make shipping cost viable. Most of these tools are not 'essential', however they are specialised enough to make life a lot easier, especially if you plan on taking in any repair work where your time really is money.

To list just a few:

Stewmac have nut and saddle shaping files, these are a good tool, you can do the same with normal files and sandpaper but I find these files are perfect for shaping bone and such for nut and saddles quickly and accurately enough to be worth of adding to the kit.

Image

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Nuts,_saddl ... Files.html

These nut 'seating' files are worth having too as they produce a 'flat' bottom to the nut slot where good coupling really is important. They are ever so slightly 'under sized' and their smooth sides allow one to use the fretboard end as a guide fence to ensure a flat bottom slot with minimal removal of material and without any danger of widening or angling the slot during seating, or reseating when cleaning out old glue from the slot:

Image

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Nuts,_saddl ... es#details

Here's one from LMI...really good people to deal with as well by the way.

Image

http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproduc ... der+Gramil

I have tried all iterations of the gramil from home made to factory made violin style and find the Schneider gramil is by far the best of them. The blade can be resharpened OK with a simple jig to hold the angle but LMI sell the Ron Hock made replacement blades for not much money. This tool has the design, weight and balance to offer great control and is a must for defining the cut prior to routing bindings anywhere of the guitar, or even for cutting the entire ledge by hand...Like any gramil, you must work with a very light hand to start, and then once you've marked the cut, ' you can increase pressure to work down in depth...I love these things and have two of them so I can work the top/back and sides without adjustment. This is not so much a luxury because many of the binding jigs we use for cutting ledges have tendency to produce a slight angle to the cut. Having these set up to initially define the cut can also be useful to true up the ledge after the router has finished its job as cutter depth can be quickly and easily adjusted without affecting width. Truing up like this goes a long way toward reducing gaps in bindings/purflings.

Again, the point in typing all of this info is to make it very clear that there are few things in this craft that we 'must' have to get the job done. Many things work, some better and cheaper than others. So the choice should come down to how much your prepared to pay for speed and accuracy...you can always achieve the latter with a little thought, preparation and understanding of the task at hand, the former is always going to cost more.

Cheers

Kim

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Re: Advice wanted for tools of the trade for a newbie

Post by Gizmo » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:24 pm

Lillian wrote:Good steel can be a joy to use, once cleaned up and properly tune.
Very true. To clean up old steel tools, I use a wire wheel on a bench grinder which will remove surface rust but not damage the black oxide surface. Safety glasses and gloves are essential if you do this, and stand to one side as the tips of wire that come off sting like wasps. Don't ask me how I know, I just know.

Once the steel is clean, wax it with pure carnauba wax. This will stop rust and it is also quite slippery on wood, it makes planes glide beautifully. Melt the wax flakes in a tin using a heat gun, not a flame, and add an equal volume of turps to get a simple paste. Bought wax is usually emulsified with water using triethanolamine and isn't anywhere near as good.

It is worth taking the time to tune a plane properly, which is to F# of course.
Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything. - Wyatt Earp
http://www.cutsetter.com.au

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