Weissenborn Copy Build

[John Maddison]

I did wonder about the colour ... there seems to be a marked difference between the indoor photos, and the one taken outdoors. Have got a set of uke-sized Surian boards from Maurie so will be curious to see the final finish.

[Kim Strode]

I'm really interested in how you think your bracing performs structurally when it's strung Bob, as well as how it sounds. I wouldn't be brave enough to design my own bracing pattern. I'm just getting back into a lap-slide build and am very interested in all the different approaches within the group at the moment.

[Bob Connor]

This one will be for a dropped D tuning Kim (DADF#AD) and a 24.9" scale so there won't be too much tension on the top.

Having said that I did tuck the lower legs of the X brace into the linings as a bit of extra insurance.

I would like to build one for a dobro type tuning (GBDGBD) which has much higher tension so I'd brace that one a little heavier.

Seeing as this is the first one I've built I'm erring on being conservative but the worst thing that can happen is that you have to replace the top.

[Alan Stassforth]

Hey, Bob, I'm curious as to what the x brace height is, on the one that runs under the taller one.
I'm just going with measurements and instinct at this point.
I tap the top or back and go "hey that sounds pretty good", then I don't know what to do,
so I usually don't do anything,
just pray it don't collapse on me,
also hope it sounds good.

[Bob Connor]

They are both 12mm Alan or half an inch. There's a cap on the X-brace lap joint that makes one look taller than the other.
They are also 8mm wide - same sort of bracing I'd use on a dreadnought.

Just bear in mind this is the first Weiss I've built so it may explode when I string it up

[Bob Connor]

I'm pore filling with Z-poxy and this is the fourth application. It will also be the last .

I've been leveling with Mirka Abranet 150 which doesn't clog with the epoxy dust. I swapped to this on the lasy two coats of Z-poxy after going through a heap of normal 240 grit sandpaper. The Abranet's not cheap but is so much better than standard sandpaper for this job.

Here's what the Surian comes up like. It's a warm, golden brown and the pores stand out which gives it an old sort of look, which is what I was after.

[Allen]

I always use a very sharp cabinet scraper to level the epoxy and get the worts of it off Bob. Sure is a lot quicker and saves heaps on sandpaper.

That Surian looks beautiful. Got that old world look to it.

[Bob Connor]

It's a lot lighter in weight than Australian Cedar Allen so I'm looking forward to hearing what it sounds like.

I really like the look of it too.

I'm going to finish this with 30% gloss so it'll have a satin finish.

[Kim]

Love that old amber glow you have going on there Bob, she's gonna have much mojo me thinks.

[ozziebluesman]

Looks great Bob. Certainly gives the guitar a vintage vibe. Waiting for a few demo tunes now!

Cheers

Alana

[Alan Stassforth]

Looking good, Bob.Hey, I've got a question for you or somebody else here.
I'm at the finishing stages on 2 of these weiss-things.
That makes 4.
Question is, when you bend the back at the upper bout for the "break",
do you get a dish down between the sides at the upper bout?
I keep forgetting to put a heavier ladder brace there.
It's happenned to all 4 I've built.
My bracing on the back is like the stew-mac plans,
but I've made them narrower and taller.
Can't wait to hear that thing, Bob!

[Bob Connor]

I'm in Tasmania at the moment Alan so I'm not near the instrument. I'll check when I get back later in the week.

I didn't use the Stewmac plans but vaguely followed Gwenn Lainné's plans.

Regards

[Bob Connor]

Well - it's finished and has been strung up for a couple of hours and hasn't fallen apart or collapsed yet so I suppose that could be categorised as success.

I'm not sure what it's supposed to sound like because I've got nothing to compare with but it sounds OK to my ears.

I'm still waiting on a proper set of strings to arrive (60-15) so it's got a set of mediums with the high replaced with an .015.

I enjoyed building this on so much that I've nearly completed a second one (this time with a Celery Top Pine top) I wanted to get this one completed first so I could make appropriate changes to the second one (in case of a catastrophic failure.

The finish is Mirotone 3220 - 30% gloss rubbed back with 360 wet and dry. Hell of a lot less work than 100% gloss and I think the satin finish suits the vintage vibe of these instruments

The top on this one is 2.4mm thick.

[Kim]

Great work Bob.

I really like the whole package, visually, the surian and blackwood are a match made in heaven and give a real warm traditional look, vintage vibe if you like. Just hope she sounds half as good and she will be a real winner.

Cheers

Kim

[Steve]

Great looking guitar Bob. The blackwood sapwood bindings looks fantastic. What's the bridge - is that made out of the same stuff?

Steve

[Bob Connor]

The bridge is Blackwood Steve.

[ozziebluesman]

That looks great Bob. Very earthy. I think your keen putting 15 to 60s gauge strings on the guitar. What you have the guitar strung up with now is ideal for good tone IMO.

Cheers

Alan

[Bob Connor]

Those are the standard gauges for John Pearse Weissenborn strings in a dropped D tuning Alan.

I've worked out the string tension on those is around 180lbs which is not huge.

They do make a heavy gauge which is 17-68 . I think they're meant for a baritone Weiss.

Here's link for info about the other gauges for different tunings.

http://www.ellisguitars.com.au/john_pea ... nborn.html

I'm interested in building one for a dobro tuning GBDGBD which has the the bottom two strings raised rather than lowered (15-52) which I would brace a little heavier than the first two.

Regards

[ozziebluesman]

Yep, I've tried John Pearce strings for open G and open D and also a D'Addario Dobro set but thought they where all too heavy sounding. Many say if you are trying to capture the sweet tone of an original weissenborn guitar, don't fall into the trap of "Dobroising" (if there is such a word) your weissenborn style guitar. Although the heavy gauge strings will give you much more volume the mediums give you that sweet, piano, percussive tone.

If I remember right you have a 24 3/4" scale on your weissenborn copy and that will make a difference to tension to.

Here is a short article on players and gauge's for weissenborn tunings.

Gear Box from that April 1996
Weissenborns and related Hawaiian guitars can be found in the hands of a variety of contemporary musicians. Here's a rundown on the instruments, strings, and tunings used by seven prominent players. Mike Auldridge plays a Weissenborn Style 1 and strings it with D'Addario phosphor bronze single gauges (a custom set, "somewhere between medium and light," with a .014 on the first string). He tunes to open E (E B E G# B E).

Bob Brozman's Hawaiian instruments include all four styles of Weissenborns (his Style 2 is a Mellotone brand, with a thin body), as well as a Hilo. He tunes to C (C G C G C E), B (B F# B F# B D#), G (D G D G B D), and D sus (D A D G A D). As for string gauge, he comments, "I don't want to say what I use because it might be misused. People will tear up their guitars if they use the strings I use. Let's preserve the instruments."

Jerry Douglas plays a Weissenborn Style 1, a wall-hanger in its previous life, and tunes it to open D (D A D F# A D). He uses D'Addario phosphor bronze strings with gauges of .014, .016. .026, .036, .044, and .060.

Ben Harper's road instruments are a Weissenborn Style 4, Style 2, and teardrop, and a Kona "Style 4." He uses D'Addario phosphor bronze lights on instruments tuned with a D or higher on bottom and mediums for tunings with a C (or lower) on the bottom. His tunings include low G (D G D G B D) and a secret tuning that he uses in three different keys--one for each of three instruments.

Greg Leisz plays a Weissenborn Style 2, Style 1, and teardrop model with an original metal tailpiece (anyone seen another?). He uses phosphor bronze light strings and tunes to open D (D A D F# A D).

David Lindley's "A-Team" Hawaiians are two Weissenborn Style 2's, one Style 1, a thin maple and spruce Style 2, and a Kona Style 3. A Bronson Brazilian rosewood square-neck sometimes substitutes for the Kona. For strings, he uses Guild bronze lights or mediums, depending on the tuning. Instruments tuned with the sixth string lower than D have .059 Darcos ("I have a nice stash of these," he says) on the sixth string. Lindley's tunings include F (F C F A C F); G (D G D G B D); an open-G variant, G G D G B D (used on "The Jimmy Hoffa Memorial Building Blues"), with a mandocello sixth string tuned an octave below the fifth string; C6 (C G C G C A); and D6 (D A D A D B).

Sally Van Meter has a Weissenborn Style 1, a Kona Style 4, and a Hilo Model 640. She uses phosphor bronze strings with gauges of .014 ("maybe a .015 or .016 on the Weissenborn, depending on the tuning," she says), .016, .026, .036, .046, and .056. She plays in open D (D A D F# A D) but says, "My Weissenborn seems to have a preference for Eb [Eb Bb Eb G Bb Eb]." She also experiments with modal tunings and high G: G D G B D G.

So tone is always subjective and a personal thing!

Cheers

Alan

[jeffhigh]

I'm running Doctor Ducks nickel dobro strings on my weiss 16 to 56 in open D
If I had a 60 for the low D I would use it
Tried tuning up to G on the 16-56 this morning and nothing disasterous happened
I use the same strings in open G on a 23" scale National New yorker, in Open E on a 22.5" scale rickenbacher and In Open C Or B on my 27.5" scale Weiss (would certainly benefit from a 60 on the low string)
If only I could play as well as Alan......