paulownia as a tonewood.

[ozwood]

Hi all,

My latest edition of Renew magazine arrived today , and there was an piece about the green creds of Paulownia as a renewable timber, I believe it's an Asian timber , fast growing, tight straight grain, very stable and strong, and a some with figure and flame .
Every now and then I get the guilt's with some of the timbers I use , and wonder what we'll all use in years to come as some of the timbers we love so much become more scarce, there is an Australian grower, on the NSW /QLD Border, who Supplies Paulownia , any one tried it as a tone wood ? , any thoughts ? I'd be keen to give it a go, But I have never dried or Resawn my own timber , the Supplier does sell 1/4 sawn in widths up to 250mm , but I'm not sure how it would go or if it's good value .

I hand it over to you my learned friends for your thoughts .

Paul.

I have included the link if you would like to check it out .

www.paulownia-timber-sales.com.au

[Allen]

Micheal Connor uses it for surf boards. He sends me his off cuts to use for my lattice bracing. The stuff I have is fine for bracing, but rather unattractive. I'm pretty sure Micheal had said it was used for sound boards on some Asian instruments.

[DarwinStrings]

I have not used it or even held any in my hands but it does sound useful. The site you linked to claims it is lighter and stronger than WR cedar and as WR cedar makes a nice soundboard you could assume the same for it though putting it into practice is what would be needed in the end.

You mentioned "the guilt's". I once had a woman bombard me with rhetoric regarding my use of tropical exotics, mainly ebony and Brazilian mahogany, she made some good points which in a way I agree with but by the same token I feel that us mob (hand builders of guitars) play a very small part in the use of these woods (I saw a huge BRW bed once as just thought what a waste). Anyway the piece of art I posted in the anything goes forum is my reaction to her bombardment, it was my arty statement that us hand builder contribute little more than picking up a few branches from the forest floor compared to the furniture and building industries.

Jim

Life is good when you are amongst the wood.

[Puff]

Jim a few years ago the price of newsprint dropped dramatically for a while. It coincided with Indonesia opening up/selling its forests to the Russians. Selective logging? Yeah right.
We as instrument makers are a blip but having said that with a bigger player taking Spanish Cedar as the next best cheap neck material option for their Strats and Teles and buying helter skelter it won't take long to munt the stock of that. That the Chinese will follow on the advertising coat tails will speed the munting empirically.
A local gallery recently had a thing on Ancient Kauri 'sculpture'. Some huge burl stuff. In all possibly 50 m3 of solid timber. A larger one was 10 feet long, five foot deep and seven feet high. The price was negotiable above the starting point which was higher than the valuation on my home and workshop on 1/3 acre with extensive sea views on one of the more expensive hunks of Kiwi turf.

[liam_fnq]

Jim a few years ago the price of newsprint dropped dramatically for a while. It coincided with Indonesia opening up/selling its forests to the Russians. Selective logging? Yeah right.
We as instrument makers are a blip but having said that with a bigger player taking Spanish Cedar as the next best cheap neck material option for their Strats and Teles and buying helter skelter it won't take long to munt the stock of that. That the Chinese will follow on the advertising coat tails will speed the munting empirically.
A local gallery recently had a thing on Ancient Kauri 'sculpture'. Some huge burl stuff. In all possibly 50 m3 of solid timber. A larger one was 10 feet long, five foot deep and seven feet high. The price was negotiable above the starting point which was higher than the valuation on my home and workshop on 1/3 acre with extensive sea views on one of the more expensive hunks of Kiwi turf.

So around A$50,000 then?

[Puff]

Hey Liam - how's the wet going up your way - same as usual?
As for the 50k - I wish - would drop the rates wonderfully.

[ozwood]

Jim,

Thanks you've just reminded me of Why I started building Guitars, I am first and foremost a Wood worker , who wanted to use , beautiful and rare timbers in a responsible and sparing way in an object that would be valued, past fads and fashions -------- the Perfect answer was to build Guitars , I Started Classes with Strato Anaganostis and Justin Montifiore fell in love with making Guitars and It's become a Passion, so your Quite Right, Our Little Slices , of what would, in probability be used for far less efficient and far more useless pursuits isn't really a problem . But I guess we should try and hedge our bets and at least start looking at Alternatives.

Paul.

[liam_fnq]

the Paulownia I've seen, which is from Mike Connor's stash via Allen, is very much like a slightly denser version on balsa. I wouldn't use it on a guitar top, a uke maybe. WRC is hard enough not to dent. Paulownia is even softer. The only way I'd use it as bracing is as part of a composite ie. capped with CF.

Puff, the wet is no drama now that Santa's got me a dehumidifier, it's the heat. 35C in the shade most days lately. Most sheds are closer to 41C. The only way to combat the heat is by swimming in the (neighbour's) pool and drinking lots of beer.

[graham mcdonald]

Paulowina is used, if memory serves me correctly, on Chinese instruments as a soundboard. Things like the guzheng, a Chinese antecedent of the Japanese koto, large zithers with strings that are plucked. A lightweight, pale coloured hardwood (?) that looks pretty uninteresting. It might be hard to sell a guitar with paulowina as a soundboard, but it could make an interesting ukulele with some figure in it.

cheers

graham

[Kim]

I have not handled any of this wood so my comment should be taken with that in mind. But if it is light and soft, it seems to me that using an egg white sizing or glaze may be a good idea. My thoughts are that it would harden the very surface enough to take a polish and offer just a little more protection against bruising. It would no doubt still dent if impact was sufficient to breach the glazed surface, but it may help stave off a lot of the minor marks it would normally pick up in play.

Cheers

Kim

[stopper]

Hi Paul,
It would be in my interest to promote paulownia as I have a large quantity of logs at my mill but... I really think it would be too soft. It is much softer than WRC. Some backsawn timber has nice figure and the occasional quatersawn piece can have an attractive ripple at stump level or close to limbs. When seasoned it is quite stiff and should be OK for bracing. It might be worth experimenting.

regards
Steve

[ozwood]

Thanks Steve,

That's Good advice from someone who knows. I appreciate your feedback , and would be keen to try some for bracing.

When I do I will be sure, let you all know my findings.

Paul.

[DarwinStrings]

Here is a thought along Kim's lines. Jeff just mentioned in his 2 + 3 thread that he used PU (assuming that is 2pac poly urethane) on those three guitars and it could be used to toughen a relatively soft sound board.

Jim

[JJ model]

yep, if its suitable for bracing then you can use it for top too. maybe the look isn't as nice as other top wood. i'm finishing a few classical guitar with those paulonia top. just to prove a point.

if the roof is too weak just add stronger beams.

[ozwood]

Thanks JJ,

Any chance of some pictures when your done , really keen to see what it looks like and your opinion on the sound.

Paul

[stopper]

Pics of some Paulownia as promised.

Paulownia 3.jpg (24.96 KiB) Viewed 19273 times

Paulownia 1.jpg (22.68 KiB) Viewed 19273 times

Paulownia 2.jpg (26.21 KiB) Viewed 19273 times

These pieces are 350mm x 10mm backsawn for surfboard laminations. I will photo some quatersawn boards next time I cut some. This log was 16 years old with a centre diameter of 67cm.

cheers

Steve

[JJ model]

Hi Guys, here are some pictures of my Classical with Paulonia Top and MBW B&S.
Sound better than my spruce version!

[ozwood]

Hi JJ ,

Thanks for those pics , that's a nice looking Guitar , Is there different species of Paulowinia and do you think the density varies depending on where it grows, You've convinced me to try some In a flamenco . Thanks for your feedback .


Paul.

[JJ model]

I think there are quite a few variant depending from where its grown , I got mine from China ( plentiful! ). Ya, I want to make a flamenco too with it!

[ash]

I have some NZ grown paulownia that I've made a solid telecaster out of. It seems very much like swamp ash, but lighter and brighter. The guitar sounds fantastic, although could stand to be a little warmer with all the maple neck and attacky sounding tele bits on it.

Next attempt will be something with a bigger body, fatter pickups and a neck with a rosewood fretboard, maybe a Jazzmaster or 335-shaped thing.

I wouldn't use my stuff for anything acoustic, except maybe a uke soundboard, but even then there are many other better choices.