Fighting back against greedy retailers

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Dominic
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Fighting back against greedy retailers

Post by Dominic » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:49 pm

It seems the big end of town is not going to leave this issue alone and being that we will all be impacted by a change in policy on this it might be a good idea if we collectively try to do something about it. In the first instance I would encourage everyone to write to their local federal member and make it clear that you would look very unfavourably on anyone who supports changing policy to favour of the powerful retail lobby.

I would be happy to write up a number of concise points arguing why it is a really bad idea that you could then put into your own words to send to your local reps and State senators.

Then it would be worth making a joint submission to the Productivity Commission enquiry about the proposal. Not sure when they will be taking submissions but I would also be happy to draft one up and we could get as many people from this site to sign it as we can.

These campaigns do have an impact on such issues and it is well worth doing.

What do you think?
Dom
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Kim
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Re: Fighting back against greedy retailers

Post by Kim » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:02 am

Great idea Dom, I will certainly write to the local if you can provide some points and will gladly be signatory to any petition which seeks to prevent the retail sector from pushing ANY changes to the import duty and GST thresholds through parliament..

IMHO the big business money grubbing bastards in the retail sector have had it 'far' too good for 'far' too long living under the protective umbrella of this countries isolation and manipulating the currency market along the way. Its time they started doing business the way it it meant to be done by accepting 'reasonable' margins instead of imposing their fucking extortion upon the consumer and treating them with contempt in the process. Its also time they started providing some proper fucking SERVICE for the obscene profits they have been shoveling in for years...where does poor misunderstood Jerry sit on Australia's richest list??? Comfortably I would expect.

For years I done all I could to support local industry but I am sick and tired of every bastard seeing me as a victim when I do. As far as I am concerned, from now on I will do all I can to purchase off shore even if it cost me a little 'more' than shopping local because it is time for change and if that means some businesses need to go down the tube, then that is just fine by me because the bastards that are not prepared to compete, need to be removed for the industry...This is war :twisted:

So yes, you can count on my support because its high time the retail sector had an attitude change and was sent a loud and clear message....The internet has seen the end of your 'captive' market, isolation is over for Australia so join the competition, or move over to make way for those that know how to earn their money honestly, and are prepared to work for it.

Cheers

Kim

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Re: Fighting back against greedy retailers

Post by sebastiaan56 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:25 am

Im in,
make mine fifths........

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Nick
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Re: Fighting back against greedy retailers

Post by Nick » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:14 am

Wrong side of the Tasman for me I'm afraid but I'd certainly be a participant if I could. The import GST threshold is being reviewed this side of the ditch too with the retailers federation wanting it set at $0 :evil: . There was a piece in the newspaper not so long ago where a guy priced a motorcycle helmet up locally through our friendly retail outlets and 'direct' suppliers then shopped offshore/online & bought one from the states (including shipping & paying GST on it because it was over our $400 threshold) but still managed to pay half of what any supplier here could 'manage'. Any move to reduce the threshold by pressure from retailers I see as anti-competitive, but then that seems to be the norm over here in NZ ( sale items exempt, the prices seem to fixed on all products & when one retailer/supplier moves, they all do).
I'm all for people making a profit but there must be a point reached where it simply becomes "ripping people off". I would advise all Aussie members to take up Dominic's offer.
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Re: Fighting back against greedy retailers

Post by Allen » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:10 am

Count me in.
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kiwigeo
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Re: Fighting back against greedy retailers

Post by kiwigeo » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:31 am

I vote with my wallet......Harvey Norman don't get a look in. Hard slogging small business people like Tim S get my trade.
Martin

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Re: Fighting back against greedy retailers

Post by kiwinoz62 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:04 am

count me in. . . this could be the start of a revolution. . . power to the people
cheers wayne . . .

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Re: Fighting back against greedy retailers

Post by John Maddison » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:52 am

I'm in too.

Dot points of information would be a fantastic thing to compile, Dom.

One of the key Treasury players in the Labour Ministry is The Hon Bill Shorten MP - read his concise statement on the issues.

A 'Who's Who' index of the Australian Parliament, should we be needing contact info, is here.
John M

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Re: Fighting back against greedy retailers

Post by John Maddison » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:59 am

Kim wrote:...where does poor misunderstood Jerry sit on Australia's richest list??? Comfortably I would expect.
Gerry Harvey's net worth is estimated at $870 million and is ranked as #13 most richest people in Australia.
John M

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Re: Fighting back against greedy retailers

Post by Kim » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:37 pm

So the unethical business model which focuses upon dangling the "3 years interest free" carrot in front of the down and outs of our society to lure them into purchasing unaffordable luxuries, only to see them thrown to the merciless world of the bottom feeding financiers and their loan shark rates when the piper must be paid and their 'essential' luxury is now no more than just another piece of out dated electrojunk, can get you to number 13 on the list aye :roll: .......how clear it all becomes that as a society we have lost our way when that is the reality of the situation.

If you've ever looked to the starry night sky wondered to yourself; If there is life on other planets, why haven't they made themselves known to us?.. Well wonder no more, for if you take a moment to examine the qualities found in a man which today's society chooses to reward so richly, then I am certain you can all identify one of your own relatives whom you choose to avoid, that has far greater graces than the likes of Mr Harvey...We're just doing it all wrong, and that must be so obvious you can see it from a whole other world away.

Cheers

Kim

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Re: Fighting back against greedy retailers

Post by liam_fnq » Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:05 pm

Those greedy, overpriced, poor service providing fat cats have got my bullshit meter on overdrive.

I'm in.

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Re: Fighting back against greedy retailers

Post by sebastiaan56 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:34 pm

I just heard on the news that Julia doesnt want a bar of it and Julie Bishop suggested putting it into the comprehensive tax review. I think its all too hard for them. Good. Death by inaction.
make mine fifths........

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Re: Fighting back against greedy retailers

Post by liam_fnq » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:46 pm

bout time those pollies did nuthin.

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Re: Fighting back against greedy retailers

Post by Dominic » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:19 pm

Ok guys, its still well worth doing this as the retailers are not going to back down despite what Gillard has said. Give me a couple of days and I'll do some research so we can answer the main points raised and to make sure we cover everything. I'll then post a bunch of dot points you can use.

A question for any of our American members, do you know if any of the goods we buy to build guitars attract any kind of sales tax or other duties. I know you don't have a consumption tax but not sure about other sales taxes etc.

Cheers
Dom
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Re: Fighting back against greedy retailers

Post by vandenboom » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:26 pm

While the big retailers deal directly with suppliers back in China etc for lots of their stock,
the other player that has come up on this forum previously that often impacts our domestic purchases as luthiers is the Australian distributor who in turn supplies lots of stuff to businesses such as Carbatec. Toejam recently mentioned the price of Safe-T-Planer locally vs Stemmac. I reckon the middle man in that supply chain has been laughing and cleaning up for years. I am pleased to see that they will now be under some pressure too.

Frank

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Re: Fighting back against greedy retailers

Post by Dennis Leahy » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:28 am

Dominic wrote:A question for any of our American members, do you know if any of the goods we buy to build guitars attract any kind of sales tax or other duties. I know you don't have a consumption tax but not sure about other sales taxes etc.

Cheers
Dom
Dom, do you mean duty or VAT if we import something from Oz/NZ into the US, or are you asking if you have to pay tax on goods you buy from the US and have shipped to you?


Importing into the States, from Oz/NZ:
For the small size transactions I have done, there is no duty imposed when I import from Oz/NZ.

Importing into Oz/NZ, from the States:
My understanding is that there is a limit (like $1000AU or something pretty large) over which Aussies have to pay a duty. (This assumes everyone is wise enough to stay away from DHL, FedEx, UPS or whoever is adding bullshit "fees".) I'm not sure about NZ. I do know the UK is happy to impose a VAT on anything, so it would be wise, for example, to get a "sample" of fiddleback Claro Walnut from the states, if the exporter is willing. This is up to the exporter, could bite them in the ass, and small businesses like Bob Cefalu may not be willing to risk that.

If you have a friend in the States that buys something for you, and re-ships it to you because the supplier refused to export, then the kooky world of US State taxes comes into play. If I buy something in my own State, or other States that have agreed to collect taxes for my State, then I'm stuck paying taxes. Occasionally, I'll find some national company that charges State tax for every State. At other times, when I buy out-of-State, I pay no State sales tax. (I think) that a couple of the US States (FL and AK) have no sales tax, even for the residents of that State. And, some States have a "use tax" where items purchased from other States are supposed to be declared on income tax forms - that should not affect any transaction where goods are re-shipped out to Oz/NZ, even for someone frightened by the possibility of an audit by the Tax Police (IRS), because the goods were not "used" in my State so "use tax" should not apply.

If this didn't answer your question, let me know and I'll try again.

Dennis
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Re: Fighting back against greedy retailers

Post by Dominic » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:31 am

Thanks Dennis, but not quite what I meant. Are there any taxes (including state taxes) of any kind that you ( I know I said we but I meant you guys) incur when you buy say wood from Bob C, or parts from SM etc? Taxes that we in OZ/NZ would pay when we buy the same goods. I am not talking about duties specific to exporting from the US. The point I was getting at is that if there are already such charges built into the retail price we would pay at the checkout for US transactions, it would seem we would be double taxed if we also had to pay GST on those goods when they came into Australia. Paying tax on tax which is the worst kind of tax.

BTW guys, given the pollies are a little distracted by the floods and are likely getting a lot of correspondence about it I thought it might be worth holding off for a bit. I have drafted a letter which you can either send as is or change to put your own slant on it if you want. Once I work the above point I'll send it to those of you who want to send one to your local rep.
Cheers
Dom
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Re: Fighting back against greedy retailers

Post by DarwinStrings » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:35 am

I would like a copy of that please Dom.

Jim
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Re: Fighting back against greedy retailers

Post by Dennis Leahy » Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:11 pm

Because I do not live in the same State as Bob (RC Tonewoods) Cefalu, Bob would not have to charge me tax (That is, unless New York and Minnesota have an agreement that I'm unaware of.) It really is kind of an unknown until I make the transaction. For example, Grizzly is in a different State than me, but they hit me for tax when I bought a dust collector. Seems like someone that I dealt with out-of-State, for a purchase for Kim (maybe McFeely's?), charged me tax.

I wish there was an easy answer. I can tell you that no US vendor should charge you any State sales tax, if they are exporting directly to you. It would only come into play when you find some 'must have' item and the vendor will not export to you, and you have to ask someone in the US to do the transaction for you. The extra shipping is always a consideration in those transactions as well, as you end up paying shipping to your US friend's house, plus shipping to Oz/NZ.

Which US vendors will not export, and what State are they located in?

Dennis
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Dominic
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Re: Fighting back against greedy retailers

Post by Dominic » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:18 pm

Thanks Dennis, so generally the answer seems to be no. For our purposes I'll assume thats the case.

BTW, the US is one of the last (maybe the only) developed countries without a consumption tax. Given current fiscal issues perhaps you guys will be gaining experience with one sooner than later.

Cheers
Dom
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Re: Fighting back against greedy retailers

Post by Dominic » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:26 pm

DarwinStrings wrote:I would like a copy of that please Dom.

Jim
No worries Jim, I'll just tidy it up this weekend then work out a way to distribute. Every time I think I've got a moments peace this week to finish it Killian (my new born) starts squealing, something between a chainsaw and a power planer although that is probably doing a disservice to both these tools.

Cheers
Dom
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Re: Fighting back against greedy retailers

Post by HiString » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:40 pm

Things may have changed since I last imported from the US but from my experiences a few years ago bringing studio gear ( always through the postal systems, USPS ---> AustPost) and approx., 14 guitars (always through DHL), I've never encountered ANY undue/unwarranted additional fees, whereas, I've heard numerous stories of people who have used either Fedex or UPS having additional costs imposed.


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Re: Fighting back against greedy retailers

Post by John Maddison » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:12 am

Frank Zumbo, an Associate Professor within the School of Business Law and Taxation at the University of New South Wales, writes an intelligent and highly enlightening piece about the GST on Imports issue at ABC's online forum: The Drum Unleashed.

Further background reading: Retailers brand online campaign a disaster.
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Re: Fighting back against greedy retailers

Post by peter.coombe » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:33 am

Yes, Frank hits the nail on the head fair and square. 10% is not going to make any difference if the item is 50% cheaper overseas and still cheaper even after taking shipping costs into account.

For many items, Australian based retailers have an inherant advantage so I find their bleating somewhat disingenious. Electrical items need to conform to Australian standards, and bigger items cost an arm and a leg to ship from overseas. Then there is the problem of warantee. So, why is Gerry Harvey et al bleating about unfair competition when he mostly sells furniture, whitegoods, flat screen TVs, computers etc., all of which it could be argued the Australian based retailer has an "unfair" advantage. I would buy local for these items because of these concerns, but I can't buy on line from Harvey Norman. In fact I can't buy from Harvey Norman without driving all the way to Canberra!! Smaller and lighter items such as clothing is another matter, but Harvey Norman does not sell clothing, so what is Gerry Harvey bleating about? Get on line Gerry et al, start competing, and shut up. The government is correct to resist this pressure from the retailers.
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Kim
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Re: Fighting back against greedy retailers

Post by Kim » Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:35 pm

John Maddison wrote:Frank Zumbo, an Associate Professor within the School of Business Law and Taxation at the University of New South Wales, writes an intelligent and highly enlightening piece about the GST on Imports issue at ABC's online forum: The Drum Unleashed.
Some interesting stuff in that John..
Clearly, focusing on GST misses the point. There are greater challenges facing Australian retailers, especially smaller retailers, such as escalating retail rents in shopping centres and the increasing cost of doing business in Australia including higher interest rates and electricity costs. Smaller retailers also face the added challenge from the growing market power of the shopping centre landlords and the major retailers who don’t miss an opportunity to give the smaller players a hard time.

Australian retailers should focus on the considerable value that online retailing has to offer. Online retailing allows retailers the ability to move part or all of their business online thereby freeing themselves from the ever-growing rents charged by shopping centre landlords. Australia has some of the highest retail rents in the developed world with a recent survey revealing that Australian CBD rents rivalled those in leading international centres. Sydney CBD retail rents, for example, were second only to New York, with Brisbane and Melbourne CBD rents higher than cities like Milan, Rome, LA and Chicago.

The escalating retail rents charged by Australian shopping centre landlords is one of the biggest threats facing retailing in Australia. Overseas retailers are able to offer cheaper online prices because of the cheaper rents and lower costs of doing business overseas.

Now, if I were a 'big' retailer, one who had substantial investments in retail rentals which I leased to smaller retailers at elevated prices in order to off set my own cost. Or one who was so big that it had become common practice for retail rental landlords to offer me greatly reduced, or even free shopping centre space, the cost of which is then subsidies by increasing the cost of retail space to smaller traders within the same complex as it is understood by all that without my draw power, the place will be empty, and I wanted to protect those cozy arrangements, then I guess I too would be joining to smoke screen the real issues to prevent change by shift focus to a non-issue such as GST which already carries considerable negativity in the minds of retailers and consumers alike. The hope would be that I would be left alone to carry on and exploit as usual....go harvey go harvey...I wonder if he plays that jingle in the background whilst staining the mattresses? :|

Cheers

Kim

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