Australian weed woods

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James Mc
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Australian weed woods

Post by James Mc » Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:38 am

Hi All… The local council here is pushing urban infill (selling off local parks and green space for units), which is leading to many old trees being removed. I watched a huge old mango tree with a trunk diameter over 100cm and a Rain tree with a trunk of about 80cm being removed from a site near my flat last week (they were chipped on site for use as mulch). This has me wondering about some of the local exotic timbers (weeds) and how they would rate as guitar timbers. The most abundant large feral trees in Australia that is actively being cleared as a weed is camphor laurel. The timber is often beautiful, it steam bends ok and is easy to work with, but it does have a smell that could be an issue. However apart from the odour I can’t think of any reason it wouldn’t be suitable. I did a google search to see if anyone has tried camphor laurel as a tonewood but didn’t find anything useful.

So, has anyone experimented with camphor laurel? Also, I’ve seen both mango and rain tree guitar sets for sale in the US and was wondering if anyone has used them and what they thought?

Below is some info from the database about some of the readily available weed timbers we have in Australia

Camphor laurel (Cinnamomum camphora)
Janka Hardness (kN) 3.3 Density kg/m3 452
The sapwood is whitish or brownish, and the heartwood brownish-yellow with a green cast, or olive to light olive-brown to blackish-brown, with a medium to coarse texture, satiny or silky lustre, straight and often rosy grain, spicy odour, and excellent working qualities

Image

Mango (Mangifera indica)
Timber: Heartwood is pale yellowish-brown to reddish-brown, darkening on exposure, not clearly demarcated from the pale yellowish-brown sapwood. Grain somewhat wavy, texture moderately coarse; freshly cut wood is scentless. The wood is used for many purposes, including indoor construction, meat-chopping blocks, furniture, carpentry, flooring, boxes, crates and boat building (canoes and dugouts).

Rain Tree or Monkey Pod (Samanea Saman)
Timber: The sapwood is a cream colour and the heartwood is dark brown, taking a high polish. With its rich dark-and-light pattern, the wood is highly prized for carvings, furniture and panelling. The wood shrinks so little that products may be carved out of green wood without fear of splitting or warping as the wood dries. In Hawaii, bowls and other craft products made from the wood are in such high demand that the local wood supply is supplemented by imports from Indonesia and the Philippines. A moderately durable wood, it is also used in boat building. The beautiful, high-quality wood is used for interior trim, crafts, boxes, veneer, plywood and general construction.

Athel pine (Tamarix aphylla)
Wood, close-grained, light-coloured, fibrous, fairly hard, heavy (specific gravity 0.6-0.7.5) strong, density of about 700 kg/m³, high shock resistance, splits readily when first cut and polishes well. Useful for making ploughs, wheels, carts, construction, tool handles, brush-backs, ornaments, carpentry, furniture, turnery and fruit boxes.

Prickly Acacia (Acacia nilotica)
Sapwood is yellowish-white and heartwood reddish-brown, hard, heavy, durable, difficult to work, although it takes a high polish. Because of its resins, it resists insects and water, and it is harvested for boat making, posts, buildings, water pipes, well planking, ploughs, cabinet work, wheels, tool handles, carts, mallets and other implements. It is an attractive wood, good for carving and turnery (I have a beautiful flute I picked up in Africa made from this… rings like a bell when you give it a tap). Fret boards?

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Sam Price
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Post by Sam Price » Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:02 am

Oh my.....WAS attack.......

I am sure virtually any wood can be turned into a guitar providing the working properties are understood.

Mango is used for back and sides as well as Monkey Pod- in fact I am sure the Zootman sells it.

I really, really wish my local tonewoods were that nice.

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Serge
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Post by Serge » Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:53 am

AAAH well, i just wish the trees here would provide such beauty man, i'd definitely use a chainsaw!

That is too nice to look at, i'm out of here, too dangerous! :lol:
Jesus, family, friends, guitar and mandolin : D

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sebastiaan56
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Post by sebastiaan56 » Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 am

Hi James,

The little bits of Camphor I have tapped have been rather dead so Im not sure of it for tonewood. That said my sample size was rather limited. Camphor can be stunning to look at with fabulous contrasting curly grain and chatoyance, it turns beatifully, particularly for a highly figured timber. I thought headstock veneer, pegs or other cosmetic areas. But if you can find a bit that rings, then why not. Ive seen lapsteels made of Camphor but not much else. I quite like the smell, particularly on the lathe but it does fade in time. At least the bugs dont eat it :lol:

As for the other timbers, I really dont know.

Sebastiaan

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Bob Connor
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Post by Bob Connor » Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:39 am

Jeffrey Yong, a fine Malaysian guitar builder, uses Monkey Pod a lot.

In fact one of His Monkey Pod guitars was adjudged the finest sounding instrument at GAL conference a couple of years ago - and, from memory, it had a Monkey Pod top!!!

His website is here

http://www.jeffyongguitars.com/luthier.htm

Bob

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Serge
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Post by Serge » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 am

Thanks Bob, great link, wonderful guitars!
Jesus, family, friends, guitar and mandolin : D

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James Mc
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Post by James Mc » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:04 am

Thanks Bob… very interesting
Well that answers the question re monkey pod, will take up the offer from the nice tree removal guy to save me a nice thick hunk of trunk. Will be a few years before I can use it, but I’m only forty odd so I should have a good seventy or so years left in me.

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Bob Connor
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Post by Bob Connor » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:07 am

I'd be resawing it either to 2inch boards or down to 6mm and stickering it
straight away.

I don't know how Monkey Pod seasons (ie whether it is susceptible to warping or twisting) but if it will cut down to 6mm and remain straight it'll be ready to use in a couple of months.

General rule of thumb is 1" per year to dry down to 6-8% MC.

If left in large lumps it may have a tendency to split.

I'd be getting in touch with Jeffrey and getting some information on the wood. He is a very helpful and personable bloke.

Bob

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Kim
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Post by Kim » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:24 am

What Bob said but don't forget to seal the end grain or it will split it way into uselessness in no time, stickered or not.

Cheers

Kim

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Ron Wisdom
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Post by Ron Wisdom » Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:13 pm

I think Hesh built one from Monkey Pod.

Ron

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James Mc
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Post by James Mc » Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:41 pm

Well if this from the World Agroforestry Centre is true then it should season well.

[quote]“The wood shrinks so little that products may be carved out of green wood without fear of splitting or warping as the wood dries.â€

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kiwigeo
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Post by kiwigeo » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:10 pm

James Mc wrote:..... but I’m only forty odd so I should have a good seventy or so years left in me.
Its good to have a positive outlook on one's longevity...but 110 years???

:shock:

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James Mc
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Post by James Mc » Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:37 pm

An old Gypsy woman told me I would live to see six score years and be active for a century, I choose to believe her. :D

Hesh1956
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Post by Hesh1956 » Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:54 am

Jeff Yong is my buddy and if you guys would like him to stop by I will invite him over?

Yep his Monkey Pod guitar, which I played BTW at HGF, won the blind listening test at GAL and it won against the biggest names in the business.

I didn't build with MP yet but I have two sets and want to build with it. Uncle Bob the Zootman at RC tonewoods sells it.

BTW Jeff's guitar that won GAL is topped in MP too, that is why I bought two sets.

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Kim
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Post by Kim » Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:57 am

Hesh,

Jeff Yong would be welcome here at the ANZLF any time, I am sure that I speak for all when I say that we would be honoured to have his input here.

Cheers

Kim

Hesh1956
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Post by Hesh1956 » Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:08 pm

OK - cool Kim, I'll go get him.

JJ model
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Post by JJ model » Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:35 pm

Hi Guys!
I'm here! Hesh wrote to me just now and I have registered myself immediately. Thanks Hesh!
Happy New Year to all! :D
Well, monkeypod , rain tree , samanea saman or the local nickname ' pukul lima' ie ' 5'oclock '. Most of the local ( village people ) doesn't know anything about botanical name so they observed the characteristic of the tree. when its about evening or 5'oclock the leaves closed up like its going to sleep so thats where the name derived or when its going to rain, the leaves closes up too to let the rain water runs off. its a big tree so if water will be retain the whole tree will be uprooted.
Now about the wood, its very porous and it bend really well.
If cut to a thin slice ( green )it'll warp so it have to be dried and stack immediately. I used a microwave oven to dry it.
Tone wise...well it surprises everybody at the GAL blind test listening seesion. Richard Glick did a recording of one of my MP guitar.
http://www.fineguitarconsultants.com/inv.htm
I hope this helps. I'll be glad to help if you have any enquiries.
Jeff

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Kim
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Post by Kim » Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:52 am

Hi Jeff and welcome,

We are honoured to have you join us at the ANZLF.

Thanks for the information about Monkey Pod, it is interesting how the tree has adapted to the rain fall by closing it's leaves in the afternoon, fascinating. I think I have seen the guitar you mentioned had won the blind test displayed on Allied web site, it is just stunning and the fact that it also sounds so wonderful is clear proof of the very high level of skills you bring to this craft.

Please feel free to jump in and comment when ever you can, most of us have much to learn and would realy value your input emencely

Cheers

Kim

Hesh1956
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Post by Hesh1956 » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:30 am

Hi Jeff and thanks my friend for joining the ANZLF forum!!!

I just listened to your guitar on Richard's site and really, Really, REALLY enjoyed it!!! :cl :cl :cl :cl :cl

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Bob Connor
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Post by Bob Connor » Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:53 am

Hi Jeffrey and welcome to the ANZLF.

Bob

JJ model
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Post by JJ model » Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:15 am

Thanks alot guys, I hope I can contribute as much as I can except that I'm a bit slow on typing and hopefully what I wrote make much sense too.
All the Best and God Bless,
Peace , Love and Happiness in your luthiering,
Jeff :D

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Tom Morici
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Post by Tom Morici » Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:18 pm

Hi Jeff,

Nice to have you here, and Welcome!!!

Tom

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Allen
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Post by Allen » Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:42 pm

G'day Jeff, and welcome. I hope that you will drop by regularly. We're a pretty easy going bunch and like to have a few laughs, especially at Hesh's expense. :lol:
Allen R. McFarlen
https://www.brguitars.com
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James Mc
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Post by James Mc » Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:35 pm

Selamat dating, Jeff

It is very nice to have you involved. I’m sure to be asking you many questions soon. The guitars on your website are beautiful, very good work.

cheers
James

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Post by JJ model » Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:03 pm

Thanks James, I know what you mean but it should be selamat 'datang' not 'dating'.
Wow, you guys are so much fun!
I'm building a new monkeypod JJ with my new bevels and sound pot, will post it up later when its finished. Another monkeypod harpguitar is on the way for Canadian Guitarist Don Alder. He played one of my MP HG last Dec at the festival and he was really trilled with the sound of it.
Thanks again and God Bless,
Jeff
btw, can someone please show me how to post a picture?

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