Rules and Restrictions for participation at this forum

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Bob Connor
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Rules and Restrictions for participation at this forum

Post by Bob Connor » Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:11 pm

Welcome to the ANZLF

One of the main inspirations for starting the Australian and New Zealand Luthiers Forum back on the 9th of July 2007, was a desire to provide a stringed instrument builders forum that fitted more with the laid back Australian and New Zealand approach to life than that offered by many of the forums based in other countries which most founding members of this forum had belonged to at some stage.

We did not want to impose any rules or restrictions at that time, preferring to keep things informal with a more 'shed talk' feel. When membership numbers were low, this approach served us very well and we had few problems. However as the ANZLF approaches its 4th birthday, it has become increasingly clear that not only has our forum grown in popularity, but so to has the breadth of individual personalities making up its membership, and the diversity of their thoughts and interpretations about what should, and what should not be allowable at this forum.

Recent developments had also clearly demonstrated that it had become impossible for the administrators to keep everybody happy and the forum on track. The bickering and challenges over policy and forum rules, which in the past had remained unwritten, but were based upon what had been assumed by the administrators as common knowledge forum etiquette, and just plain good manners, has only served to disrupt participation in the core focus of this forum. With that, it has damaged the experience of participation for the vast majority of members who do not seek to involve themselves in such debates and are happy just to have a spam free local environment in which to exchange information about their chosen craft.

Given that it has only ever been our intention to provide the members of the ANZLF with just that, we find that our hand has now been forced to draft the following rule set which has been approved by the administrators of this forum for immediate implementation, and is in effect for all members who choose to use this forum from this point forward.

As you read your way through the short preamble and list of six rules, please consider that they should never effect how the vast majority of our members have interacted with this forum in the past. It is acknowledged that these rules do appear quite dictatorial coming from a bunch of blokes who did not want 'any' rules to begin with. But it needs to be clearly understood that the administrators of this forum give their 'limited' free time on a voluntary basis, and with that in mind, it was decided that if this forum was to continue at all, then we would need to have a rule set that would allows us to use the time spend in administration more effectively, so we can deal with any issues quickly and decisively, and free up more of our time to participate in the core focus of this forum with the rest of the members.

When all is said and done, that is the only reason that we want to be here, and the only reason that the lights were ever tuned on at the ANZLF.

Cheers

Bob

PREAMBLE: This forum is not a democracy. Its policies and rules are determined only by its administrators whom make themselves available to provide this forum to its users on a voluntary basis. This forum generates no form of income. All cost associated with the day to day operation of this forum are absorbed in their entirety by its owner. The provision of this services does not imply any form of responsibility for those choosing to use this service. Use of this service should not be viewed in such a way that could give rise to the expectation that some form of commitment has been made to the user by those providing it. Rather, this forum should be seen as a service that is provide to the user 'free of charge', and in that, free of any form of obligation to the user.

RULES:

1: The manner in which this forum operates shall remain at the sole discretion of its administrators. No open discussion by regular members relating to the management of this forum, or its policies, will be tolerated without specific invite to do so within a topic created by this forum's administrators specifically for that purpose. Any concerns held by member relating to the running of this forum are to be directed to any of the administrators by 'personal message only' where upon it will be presented for consideration by the administration team.

2: There is an expectation of acceptable behaviour by those who use this service which is based upon common forum etiquette as interpreted by the administrators of this forum. Please conduct yourself in a fitting manner while accessing this service and there will be no problem. However should you conduct yourself in such a way as to evoke a warning from the administrators of this forum, that warning should be considered first and final with deletion of your account and refusal of access to this service being a possible option should you fail to comply with our request to desist.

3: This forum encourages open 'unsolicited' endorsement to be posted by its users about any relevant businesses to our core topics with which they have had a positive experience as a standard and 'full paying' customer. Like wise we encourage members to share links to any product relevant to our core topic which they feel would benefit other members of this forum, if they have no direct affiliation to that product that would see them rewarded, favoured or otherwise advantaged as a result of its sale. This forum also permits the inclusion of a singular link to any business related web page that is owned, operated and hosted by that member, to be placed in the field provided within the users own profile settings. However any level of 'uninvited' endorsement or promotion of any business enterprise to which a user has an association through which they gain any form of reward, favour, or advantage, is not permitted to appear in any content posted by that user. This restriction includes any URL link (including those inserted in a users signature), any images, or any text, that is deemed by 'the administrators of this forum' as being promotional in nature. Any content that is determined by the administrators of this forum to be in breach of this restriction, will be deleted without consultation, and a warning will be sent to the offender with failure to desist resulting in that user being denied access to this forum on a permanent basis.

4: The decision to allow any business operator or affiliate to post on this forum in a commercial sense shall remain at the sole discretion of its administrators and is 'strictly' by 'invite only'. Any user of this service seeking to gain access to this forum in a commercial sense by canvassing any administrator of this forum by public post, email, or private message, shall have their account immediately deleted with further access to this service denied on a permanent basis.

5: All determinations made by this forums administration team relating to access, and restriction of the service we provide to any member, group of members, or business interest, will be final. The administration team of this forum reserve the right to edit and/or delete any content they deem necessary to conform to these rules. The administrators of this forum also reserves the right to add to, remove from, or otherwise edit, the contents of this list of rules at any time, and at their own discretion.

6:By accessing this forum users are agreeing to abide by all of the rules, restrictions and guideline listed above.

Thank you for your support

The ANZLF Administration Team
Bob, Geelong
_______________________________________

Mainwaring and Connor Guitars

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rocket
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Re: Forum Rules and Restrictions for participation at this f

Post by rocket » Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:23 pm

That's cool with me, i find the people on this forum very friendly, helpful, happy to share ideas and other info, a great place to hang out , show your stuff, ask others their opinion, and be inspired by others.
Thankyou Bob and the rest of the moderators involved here, i think you're doing a great job!!! :cl :cl :cl
Cheers,,,,
Rod.
Like I said before the crash, " Hit the bloody thing, it won't hit ya back

www.octiganguitars.com

What Democracy?
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Re: Rules and Restrictions for participation at this forum

Post by What Democracy? » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:52 pm

Hello to all,
I do a lot of work with phpBB sites and have acted in "moderator's" position at site admin level. I also have a keen interest in building instruments. This is why I am here.

At the bottom of this page and every other like it on this site you will find the following text: Powered by phpBB.
phpBB are the providers of the software that runs this site and many like it.
They were nice enough to make this software open source and free for use by organisations like ANZLF.
When writing this popular and widely used piece of software, the programmers had the vision to see that administrators of sites may run into trouble from time to time. phpBB came up with a set of rules to which ANZLF must have agreed in order to have obtained the phpBB software in the first instance.

Upon obtaining this phpBB open source software platform upon which ANZLF runs, an End User Licence Agreement (EULA) is presented to the potential site Administrator(s). The potential phpBB user/administrator is then presented with an opportunity to accept or decline the terms of the licence agreement for that software. The phpBB EULA has clear guidelines for use, misuse and methods for dealing with it when problems arise. phpBB reserve the right to review the licence to use this software and they make the rules.
Here are the software owner's rules. I think you will find that they take precedence over the new additions:

http://www.phpbb.com/rules/

This platform (phpBB's) existing rules have proven effective in thousands of forums on many topics, some subjects far more inflammatory than Luthiery. No extra rules have been found to be necessary on many other forums with which I have been extensively involved.
Bulletin boards have been functioning quite well in various forms for well over 30 years without the requirement for any individual's additional ammendments, additions, requirements, supplements, appendixes, preambles or constitutions.

I read and agreed wholeheartedly with Bob's rules (EULA) when I signed up to ANZLF, now the rules have been changed in the middle of the game. If these rules had been made available to me in the ANZLF EULA at the time of signing up, I would have looked elsewhere. The new rules effectively give the administrators power of veto over all aspects of site use, a position I strongly disagree with and take issue with. As a telecommunications data technician I can tell you that site Admin always had the means to veto anything via phpBB settings anyway, but to draft and publish such a list of draconian rules in my opinion, amounts to censorship in the least, if not outright totalitarianism.

If site admin deems this post inappropriate and wishes to demonstrate their newfound powers by making an example of me by revoking my membership, let me refer ANZLF admin to the terms of the phpBB software licence agreement, which they accepted. I have 3 warnings before you give me the boot. That is of course, unless you consider open dialogue and personal opinion to be an offence. This is their opportunity to show that they believe in open dialogue and robust debate from site members by leaving this post up for all to read. This is open dialogue.

http://www.phpbb.com/rules/ - Section 7, paragraph A - "Policing phpBB operates a three strike policy. Users will be warned a maximum of three times for any and all offences in a three month period. If the need arises for a fourth warning a temporary ban will be put in place of between 1 to 7 days."

As a keen and genuinely interested newbie to Luthiery and to this site, I find Bob's persistent authoritarian tone somewhat off-putting.
I do not feel welcome here. If Bob wants to make his own rules to gag open dialogue on his own site, then so be it.
Like he says, he pays the power bill... phpBB and the site users will be the ultimate judge.
This is what can happen when a site gets bigger than an individual's capacity to deal with it.
If the ANZLF is not a democracy, it is a dictatorship - count me out.

Seeya later people, nice knowin ya!

I have guitars to build.

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charangohabsburg
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Re: Rules and Restrictions for participation at this forum

Post by charangohabsburg » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:48 am

Ben jamin wrote:Hello to all,
[...]
I have guitars to build.
Really? Doesn't seem to be so.
Markus

To be stupid is like to be dead. Oneself will not be aware of it.
It's only the others who suffer.

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Kim
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Re: Rules and Restrictions for participation at this forum

Post by Kim » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:10 am

What Democracy? wrote: Here are the software owner's rules. I think you will find that they take precedence over the new additions:

http://www.phpbb.com/rules/

If site admin deems this post inappropriate and wishes to demonstrate their newfound powers by making an example of me by revoking my membership, let me refer ANZLF admin to the terms of the phpBB software licence agreement, which they accepted. I have 3 warnings before you give me the boot.

http://www.phpbb.com/rules/ - Section 7, paragraph A - "Policing phpBB operates a three strike policy. Users will be warned a maximum of three times for any and all offences in a three month period. If the need arises for a fourth warning a temporary ban will be put in place of between 1 to 7 days."
Eeerrmm, your links are to the user rules for phpBB's 'own' forums which they run from 'their' web site :oops:...They have nothing to do with any EULA and nothing to do with us and are certainly not intended to be applied to every forum that runs phpBB software globally.

Happy to leave your post up, its a great example of why 'our' rules became necessary.

Happy with our rules.

Happy to keep this forum on topic and spam free.

Happy to see you go if you don't feel the same.

Lots of politically based discussion forums out there on the net where you will feel right at home while those of us who use 'this' forum continue to share thoughts and ideas about our passion for building stringed instruments.

Cheers

Kim

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Re: Rules and Restrictions for participation at this forum

Post by kiwigeo » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:49 am

What Democracy? wrote:
Bulletin boards have been functioning quite well in various forms for well over 30 years without the requirement for any individual's additional ammendments, additions, requirements, supplements, appendixes, preambles or constitutions.
Funny but just about all the forums I frequent have additional ammendments, additions, requirements, appendixes, preambles etc.
Martin

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DarwinStrings
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Re: Rules and Restrictions for participation at this forum

Post by DarwinStrings » Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:20 pm

What Democracy? wrote:Seeya later people, nice knowin ya!
Signed anonymous :roll:

Once again from me "viva la Presidente"

Jim
Life is good when you are amongst the wood.
Jim Schofield

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Re: Rules and Restrictions for participation at this forum

Post by kiwigeo » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:10 pm

All very strange.....the post above is from someone with the handle "What Democracy?" but there's also a new member with the same handle who's joined up and is now waiting for his membership to be approved by the admins.

It gets even stranger...... if you go to "What Democracy"'s profile he appears to have posted on 12 previous occasions under a different moniker.
Martin

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Re: Rules and Restrictions for participation at this forum

Post by Chalks » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:24 pm

Seriously if some people would just stop for a single minute to think they might find they are just fu#@ing it up for everyone else. A few apples in the box. That is all it takes and we spend hours trying to fix something that ain't broke because someone needs a rule.

Just stop!! And be thankful someone is giving you something you actually want. FOR FREE!!!! It is like being stuck, broken down on the side of the road and bitching because the person stopping to pick you up is driving a hatchback or a ute instead of a limo.

Christ sake!

Chalks

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Re: Rules and Restrictions for participation at this forum

Post by charangohabsburg » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:29 pm

Martin and all,

I replied to the posting of the user "What Democracy?" before he changed his former user name "Ben jamin"(look at the citation in my earlier reply). When a user changes his user name (if allowed at all), according to the configuration of phpBB the user has to await confirmation by an admin before being able to post again (look at his user profile).

Check out the message list of Ex-"Ben jamin" / Now-"What Democracy".
Markus

To be stupid is like to be dead. Oneself will not be aware of it.
It's only the others who suffer.

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Re: Rules and Restrictions for participation at this forum

Post by Alfred J » Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:09 pm

First, a vote of thanks to Bob. Its a generous man indeed who donates his time and $$ to provide a forum for like minded folk to share and post about their craft. And secondly, my thanks to the admins who donate their valuable time to help make this forum work.

I read (and post once in a while) purely out of an interest in luthiery. I wish I had more time to devote to it. Business takes precedence unfortunately. Bob owns the site. He and the admins evidently felt the need to establish the rules listed above. That's OK with me. I'm a member, but i'm also aware that I'm a guest here.
Life's too bloody short for "them and us" IMHO.

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Re: Rules and Restrictions for participation at this forum

Post by Dennis Leahy » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:36 pm

Very reasonable set of rules - especially considering Bob and the team of admins/mods that mop up the floor and straighten the pictures hanging on the walls - in their own time and for free. No doubt, a very few people were chronically discourteous or abusive, or insisted on injecting spam, to force Bob to write down a set of rules. Quite frankly, if you can't get along with Bob (about as nice a bloke as you'll find anywhere), you aren't welcome in my shed, at my dinner table, or in the forums I haunt.

Like Bob said, this makes it easy for mods/admins to quickly and decisively assist miscreants in finding the door, and then getting back to enjoying the company of the other 99.9% of the ANZLF membership.

Sorry you had to take the time to write down rules. You have 100% of my support.

Dennis
Another damn Yank!

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Re: Rules and Restrictions for participation at this forum

Post by ZOOTMAN » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:48 pm

Just found this post WOW. What a fuc@&^! jerk. Could never find a nicer bloke than my buddy Bob.

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Re: Rules and Restrictions for participation at this forum

Post by needsmorecowbel » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:29 pm

Is it just Me or are internet trolls becoming more idiotic? He instantly loses all credibility by calling himself "What Democracy?"...What a Stooge

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Cookie man
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Re: Rules and Restrictions for participation at this forum

Post by Cookie man » Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:15 am

Hmm, thankyou Mr. Connor for this. :cl When I joined I just assumed that there would be a proper 'chain of command' (probably a bad phrase to use but oh well), and that since somone pays the bills for the site, they are free to moderate etc as they see fit. It's no different for the three other PHP forums I'm a member of. Where is the problem? Doesn't seem to be one except for one silly member having an issue with mods and probably authority in general...

Guess you can't please everyone really can you? :mrgreen:

Cheers.
needsmorecowbel wrote: Markus it doesn't count when you briefly duck out the shed, make a fly fishing rod, then catch a trout from your hand carved canoe, package it (with the hand made vacuum machine) and then take a photo with your home made electron microscope....
:lol:

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Re: Rules and Restrictions for participation at this forum

Post by Rod True » Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:42 pm

Bloody Hell, there goes the neighbourhood......

Good on ya Bob! I've always liked it here :D
"I wish one of the voices in your head would tell you to shut the hell up." - Warren De Montegue

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Re: Rules and Restrictions for participation at this forum

Post by Quinny » Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:21 am

I just read everything above and it seems to me that the garden is being weeded - so the new rules are already effective. Those who replied negatively are not as generous as Bob and those who give their time and knowledge. As the disenfranchised leave - the garden can blossom.

As a newbie, this has been a Luthier Eden and incredibly welcoming - not to mention incredibly helpful on advice. My only regret is that the second post has been given such air time - no more!! Thanks again to all the volunteers - now back to the fun of making geetars and ukes.

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Re: Rules and Restrictions for participation at this forum

Post by Gsanbrook » Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:33 am

needsmorecowbel wrote:Is it just Me or are internet trolls becoming more idiotic? He instantly loses all credibility by calling himself "What Democracy?"...What a Stooge
No, it's not just you, trolls unfortunately have a limitless supply of stupidity.

I like this site and come here daily. I think we have had some good debates on issues without losing respect for each other. Let's continue and let the trolls leave. Good riddance.

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Re: Rules and Restrictions for participation at this forum

Post by outbackjack » Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:55 am

Hi Everyone i am 66 and i have discovered that there is a never ending supply of stupidity no matter how often or by how many it is used and the alarming thing about it is that you are not aware that you are using it untill someone says stop beang so stupid I bet he thought he was beang so smart I feel sorry for the guy ohh God I hope i am not beang stupid again cheers what what's a golem who said that ohhhh dear i think it's time for my pills

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