new and eager!

[edlee]

Hello to all!

I'm new to the whole guitar building idea and I'm trying to learn all that I can about building. Hopefully with good direction and advice I will be able to build nice sounding instruments to come. If any body can give any advice to a newbie it would be greatly appreciated. I was also looking through the forums and came across the tonewood section, and there were some really beautiful sets of wood in there. What would be a good wood to start with that wouldn't cost a fortune, because I'm sure there will be a few mistakes. But any hoot I could go on and on. Any help would be appreciated. [/b]

[Bob Connor]

G'day Edlee and welcome to the forum.

You can't really go past Indian Rosewood for back and sides for a first guitar.

It's not too expensive and there's really no need to go for master grade.

It bends like butter, sounds great and looks good.

Bob

[Lillian]

Edlee, first welcome and watch out for the Americans. They are an ornery bunch.

I'll assume you want to build an acoustic. I would suggest that you start reading anything and everything you can find at your library and if the pickings are sparse there, track down a copy of Build Your Own Acoustic Guitar: Complete I... by Jonathan Kinkead, A Guitar Maker's Manual
by Jim Williams, or even Step-by-Step Guitar Making by Alex Willis. But even if you have to beg, borrow or steal, read Guitarmaking: Tradition and Technology: A Complete Reference for the Design & Construction of the Steel-String Folk Guitar & the Classical Guitar by Jonathan Natelson, William Cumpiano . I would also recommend checking out Charles Hoffman's site http://www.hoffmanguitars.com/building_a_guitar.htm.

There is a great tutorial page of pages on the OLF. Bob, did they get that all sorted out yet?

Remember, its not too late to walk away from this. Your savings account will thank you. 'Cuz you know,you can't build just one.

[Allen]

Welcome to the forum Edlee. As Bob said, East Indian Rosewood is lovely to work with. I love the smell of it, but Bob will tell you it smell like dog crap.

I built my first with EIR and a sitka spruce top, with mahogany neck. Another really top notch wood for back and sides in mahogany. Some people say that it is more difficult to bend, but I didn't find it to be any more difficult, and it can be even less expensive than the EIR.

As Lillian suggests, go to the local library and check out all the books that you can on guitar building. There's heaps of them in print, and while they are not all the best reference, you will get an idea by reading through them on what's involved and various ways of going about it. If you end up building more than one...and you will, your building style and skills will evolve and you will more than likely not be building in the same manner on later instruments that you did on the first.

O'Brians DVD on building a guitar is really quite good for someone starting out too if you can get your hands on it. It's available from LMI at http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproduc ... +O%92Brien

Ask heaps of questions, there aren't any dumb ones. Know that you will make mistakes, and the best part of all is learning how to correct the mistakes. I for one have made at least one mistake of varying seriousness on each guitar that I've built, and I've learned more about building by having to go about correcting a stuff up. And I figured out how to fix the stuff ups by asking questions and reading on forums like this one.

[Hesh1956]

Welcome Edlee!

I agree that Indian Rosewood and Sitka would be excellent woods to use on early builds.

Allied Lutherie in the states has Indian Rosewood in what they call "opportunity" grade that is very inexpensive and often not bad looking at all either.

In addition so some of the books mentioned there is an excellent video by Robbie O'Brien available from LMI (Luthier's Mercantile Exchange).

[James Mc]

Hi Edlee and welcome.
My first question would be do you play already or are you going to learn on the one you build? If you’re just learning then many would recommend starting with a nylon string classical (wider fretboard and the strings are easier on the fingers). I’m personally undecided about this but the few people I know that teach guitar all seem to support this view.

I’m going to buck the trend and recommend that you start with local timbers. You can pick up a set of maple and sitka or western red cedar at very a reasonably price in the US. Maple is easy to bend, great to polish (doesn’t need to be filled) and if you do crack a side when bending you can buy a new set of sides without paying for a whole new set (same goes for if you stuff a back). But ultimately it is up to you and what you like in a guitar; sound as well as how it looks.

More of an issue than the cost of timber is the cost of tooling, you can often score good quality used tools that will serve you better than cheap new stuff of questionable quality. The problem with used stuff is that you may have to wait until it comes along so being proactive about watching for them is a good idea.

[edlee]

Thanks to all who replied. I have been playing bluegrass and country for some time. I have recently started trying to learn classical and it really is different and a big change. I currently own Takamine's of which consist of 1 maple which really is loud and not much of a low range and a rosewood that has a soft but rich tone with a bit of a high range. I would really like to build a guitar that has a deep low range and soft but clear high range. I have already purchased the Campiano book which has explained some things (I think) but I believe the biggest part of it is just jumping in and trying. I did however stumble upon the build journal in tutorials which I felt was great. Can't say enough for someone who shares something like that without asking for some dough. But any hoot. Back to the wood; so do you guys think what I'm expecting out of tone can be achieved with the rosewood? Also where is a good source to get bracing patterns or ideas for bracing or is that something that one just has to experiment with? Thanks again to all, I really appreciate the help and info. Not all Americans are honery, but I promise there is a fair share of 'em here!

[Bob Connor]

G'day Edlee

If you're playing bluegrass you'll be wanting to have a look at Martin's Dreadnought bracing patterns.

There's plenty of them at the Martin site and on Frank Ford's site

frets.com

Consider buying one of the Dreadnought plans from LMI or Stewart MacDonald. They'll be invaluable to you for reference for dimensions and brace placement.

Yeah, Maple can make a very dry sounding guitar so I reckon East Indian Rosewood is your best bet for a first up. It's what they use on Martin D-28's.

John Mayes has some excellent DVD's on carving braces and voicing guitars tops. i don't see them on his website at the moment but I'm sure if you email him he'll sell you a copy.

John Mayes

Cheers

Bob

[Arnt]

Hi Edlee,
as you see this site even has some members from non English speaking countries, but we so our best to understand what you guys are discussing (what the heck does ornery / honery mean anyways, I'm too lazy to look it up!)

I will second Bob's advice to get a set of dreadnought plans. I like Don McRostie's "herringbone dreadnought" D-28 plans, available form Stewmac. Since you play bluegrass and country I bet you are already familiar with these guitars, but for that type of music and the tonal goals you describe there is really no reason to look any further. You probably also know that the D-18 has mahogany back and sides, and it is an excellent bluegrass guitar as well. Mahogany is sometimes a bit tricky to bend though, and there are now restrictions on sale of 'Honduras' mahogany, but there are many cousin species that are excellent substitutes. My first few guitars all had mahogany backs and sides that I bent on a hot iron, so it's nothing to be scared about.

We always discuss backs and sides because that is where the pretty wood goes, but don't forget the guitar top! This is the engine of the instrument and where your main focus should be. For a classic dreadnought sound, look into getting a nice, stiff piece of red spruce both for the top and the top braces; Steve at Colonial and BobC both will provide red spruce, another excellent vendor is Old Standard.

Good luck, and don't be a stranger!

[edlee]

Thanks again to all. I really appreciate the good advice. I'll be lurking around trying to gather all the info I can so don't mind me. Orney/honery means up to no good and down right mean. Try to stay away from those kind; they have a way to get in trouble.

[Kim]

Hey Edlee,

Welcome to the ANZLF.

Don't be afraid to ask questions. Quite often those attempting to answer a question are forced to closely re-examine how they do thinks when attempting to explain what it is they do. Upon that re-examination it is not unusual for them to have a light bulb moment themselves. So you see it's a win, win.

Also the dynamics of a forum help us all to learn. If we have been doing something a certain way for a long time, and we try to pass that information on to another by answering a basic question, our own explanation may reveal a better way of doing the same old thing when someone else jumps in with a more efficient of affective method.

So you see, without those simple questions ever being ask, a lot would remain unknown to us and we would just carry on doing what has worked OK up to that point.

Cheers

Kim

[Ron Wisdom]

Welcome, Edlee. What part of MO are you in? I'm in central Arkansas.

I made my first three dreds out of cherry. It is a great wood to work with, sounds great, and should be available in MO in a lot of places. If you're close to St. Louis, there is Hibdon Hardwood and they have all kinds of wood. If you're close to Springfield, Grizzly usually has indian rosewood in stock.

Ron

[Dennis Leahy]

Hi Ed,

Another American you had to travel halfway 'round the word and upside down to meet!

Once you get fully addicted, er, I mean once you have gotten into this a bit, you'll find that Missouri has a lot of native species that will make wonderful guitar sides, backs, and necks.

Hesh gave great advice for East Indian Rosewood (EIRW) at Allied, under the heading "opportunity grade." You probably won't find a better deal on that wood from a reputable tonewood supplier. EIRW will look like a lot of other dreadnaughts out there. Whether that's a good thing (blend in) or a bad thing (too common) is your aesthetic choice. It is also reported by most luthiers as one of the easiest woods to bend. If you want a dense wood that will probably sound about the same as a Rosewood, but with a different look, you could try Bubinga or Granadillo (available from LMI for about $50-$70 a set), or check with
Bob at RC Tonewoods
Steve at Colonial Tonewoods
Larry at Gallery Hardwoods

and ask each of them what they might offer inexpensively "with a sort of Rosewood taptone, destined for a bluegrass dred." They all have some wood that is imperfect in some way, and they will probably find something just right, and within budget. (Thier WOW material listed on their sites is not all they have.)

Arnt is correct in underscoring the soundboard as the one chunk of wood where you should be concentrating on quality (not necessarily visual quality, but definitely in sonic quality.) Many of the successful luthiers building bluegrass guitars like the really stiff Spruces, like Adirondack (see Bob or Steve), but you may be equally happy with either White Spruce or "Lutz" Spruce. Lutz is a natural hybrid between Sitka and White Spruces, and some of it is mighty stiff. For quantity purchases of Lutz (because of shipping from Canada), see Shane at High Mountain Tonewoods; but for single soundboards within the US, check with Bob at RC Tonewoods,

You may want to look at what wood components are included in a dred kit from Stewart Macdonald or LMI, and with that shopping list, you could ask the tonewood vendor you buy from if they have the other stuff (neck wood, kerfed linings, binding, neck and tail blocks, bracing stock.)

Hope this helps. I've got blisters on me fingers!

Dennis

[James Mc]

I was looking at Granadillo on LMI just the other day after using some on a non-guitar project and I think it would be a good choice. When to bottom drops totally out of the US economy and the Australian dollar is worth 150 US cents I’ll be going on an online tonewood shopping spree

[Serge]

Hi Edlee, welcome to the forum Friend,

EIR back and sides with Lutz spruce top has given me great sound on guitar no 2 if you decide to go that route, read everything ya can, get all the sleep ya can now because soon enough you'll be walking like a zombie, you'll be building in your dreams and your wife will think that yer nuts but hey the sofa is your friend, just ask Heshter!

Read but also start building somewhere, feel the wood in your hands, develop that sensory feeling and intelligence of yer fingers about wood properties, it's gonna help you a great deal, for beginners, i really loved Kathy Matsushita's website and Mario Proulx's website, tons of pics there also!

Have fun and enjoy the sawdust !

Serge