Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build

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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build

Post by Clancy » Wed May 30, 2012 9:23 am

Don't I know it, Allen!
I'm already a heretic, this'll have them mobbing in the streets, crying out to 'burn him at the stake along with his abominations'. :twisted:

Charlie, I used to sleep when the US sleeps.
I spent the first years of my life living in Boston, asking for a 'cookie', eating pb&jelly, and taking my first steps on the grass in front of the white house.
Maybe that's what's wrong with me. :lol:

And thanks for mentioning my name in the same paragraph as Masters Hurd & Motolla.
Hardly deserved & humbling- I'm only following the information in the Gore/Gilet books.
All credit is due to them.
Craig
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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build

Post by kiwigeo » Wed May 30, 2012 10:27 am

Those Gore and Gilet characters have alot to answer for :mrgreen:
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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build

Post by Bruce McC » Wed May 30, 2012 10:38 am

Craig

Why is the mount on the back upside down
and is the positioning of this mount critical? :roll:

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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build

Post by Clancy » Wed May 30, 2012 5:47 pm

afshar wrote:Why is the mount on the back upside down
and is the positioning of this mount critical? :roll:
Oh damn, & I've gone and put the top on already!
I need to check these things more carefully in future.
Oh well, it's inside, no one will notice.

Just one other thing to note - I used oversized (for a uke) reverse kerfed linings for a high impedance mismatch between top & sides. (Didn't need them at the back, but had made plenty so....)
Craig
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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build

Post by ProfChris » Wed May 30, 2012 8:50 pm

This is a fascinating build, and I'll be interested to see how it turns out.

Although I'm the veriest amateur uke maker I am a researcher by trade, so I've read widely about traditional uke making (not the Gore Gilet book, though, I'm too amateur to justify the cost). That tells me the conventional wisdom, derived from lots of ukes built over the years. This is that the smaller the uke, the less stiff it should be: for a soprano as little bracing and lining as can be got away with. When playing, you should feel back and sides vibrating away. But that could all be mistaken.

This build goes in entirely the opposite direction: lots of stiffness and careful control of vibration. Hmm.

My guess at this stage is that it will produce an instrument which is good and loud and has fine tone and sustain. But I also guess that it will sound like a small guitar, rather than what I think a uke should sound like. But then, I haven't heard a spruce uke that didn't sound like a small guitar.

Is the aim that it should sound like ukes sound, but better? Or is the aim that it should be better in some other respect, and if so what? It might be worth thinking about these, because without a clear aim this won't demonstrate anything other than that these techniques can be used to build a musical instrument at a smaller scale.
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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build

Post by Tod Gilding » Wed May 30, 2012 9:06 pm

Craig, You may not need to get your fingers in there, for a soundboard of that area,you possibly have already added the mass :D
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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build

Post by Clancy » Wed May 30, 2012 11:43 pm

Hi Chris,
because without a clear aim this won't demonstrate anything other than that these techniques can be used to build a musical instrument at a smaller scale.
Is this in itself such a bad thing?

Look, the Gore/Gilet books are not directly about uke making.
Trevor Gore has mentioned in this thread (several times :) ) that he knows nothing about the things.
I'm just building this as an exploration for me of applying these new methods of build & analysis.
There's more to this than just the bracing, and even with that I may have got it very, very wrong.
Already, having got something physical now to bend & flex, I'm inclined to re-visit Jeremy's thoughts of discarding the secondary braces - despite my previous statements.
And while this thread is just to share these little discoveries with others, to really understand why I'm doing these things you need to have read the background stuff.

And if I do end up with a loud, crisp, bright little uke....well I guess I could live with that. :D

Tod - that's why I weighed them before I glued them in.
Craig
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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build

Post by matthew » Thu May 31, 2012 12:46 am

endgrained wrote: Come on, all of you guitar only builders have a scrap box labelled "ukulele" in the back of the shed!
I have a scrap box labelled "guitar" at the back of the shed.

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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build

Post by ProfChris » Thu May 31, 2012 2:54 am

Clancy wrote:Hi Chris,
because without a clear aim this won't demonstrate anything other than that these techniques can be used to build a musical instrument at a smaller scale.
Is this in itself such a bad thing?
Oh no, not in the least. That's the kind of inquiring mind I like (unless it's a child with matches and petrol thinking, "I wonder ...").

I'd somehow got the impression that you also wanted to test whether this construction method was better, in some way, and so was asking what the test for "better" was.
And if I do end up with a loud, crisp, bright little uke....well I guess I could live with that. :D
Definitely a win if you do! Particularly if this new bracing system puts a bit more colour and oomph into spruce.

I'll be watching with interest to see how you get on.
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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build

Post by charangohabsburg » Thu May 31, 2012 4:52 am

matthew wrote:
endgrained wrote: Come on, all of you guitar only builders have a scrap box labelled "ukulele" in the back of the shed!
I have a scrap box labelled "guitar" at the back of the shed.
My billets that are too thin to carve charango bodies end up in my scrap box labelled "double basses".
Nice food chain, isn't it?
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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build

Post by matthew » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:06 am

charangohabsburg wrote:My billets that are too thin to carve charango bodies end up in my scrap box labelled "double basses".
Mmmm I use charango bodies as cleats for crack repair. How much for the box? :D

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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build

Post by woodrat » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:24 am

matthew wrote:
charangohabsburg wrote:My billets that are too thin to carve charango bodies end up in my scrap box labelled "double basses".
Mmmm I use charango bodies as cleats for crack repair. How much for the box? :D
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Good one Matthew!

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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build

Post by charangohabsburg » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:41 am

matthew wrote:
charangohabsburg wrote:My billets that are too thin to carve charango bodies end up in my scrap box labelled "double basses".
Mmmm I use charango bodies as cleats for crack repair. How much for the box? :D
If you pick them up at my home you can have some boxes of charango blanks for free but you must take the scrap box too.
Markus

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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build

Post by charangohabsburg » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:50 am

matthew wrote:Mmmm I use charango bodies as cleats for crack repair. How much for the box? :D
Must admit, you double basses are big.

This is a charango (if you didn't know):

Image

Image
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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build

Post by matthew » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:03 am

Ah ... I always suspected a Charango is an unplayable instrument.

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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build

Post by charangohabsburg » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:54 pm

matthew wrote:Ah ... I always suspected a Charango is an unplayable instrument.
Not less playable than the octobass: click.

P.S.
Sorry Craig for hijacking your thread. :oops:
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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build

Post by Dominic » Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:13 pm

Hey Craig, I saw above you were wondering if you needed a bridge patch. I have not used one on any of the classical guitars I have made. Romanillos experimented with this and came to the conclusion one was not needed on a classical. He argues they just introduce a great amount of stress on the soundboard when humidity changes because it is glued on cross grain. And he has found no acoustic or structural benefit to having one. He also notes that Torres never used one.

I suspect therefore there is even less need for one on a uke.

Pretty high tech uke, are you gonna sell it for enough to justify the additional effort? Its only natural for me to reduce these ideas into economics and productivity. We have to ensure our marginal product of labour is at least slightly positive, enough so we can live in the lap of abject poverty but not a cent less!!!. "How good have all the musos got it these days", I saw someone mention and its true.
Cheers
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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build

Post by J.F. Custom » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:32 pm

Hi Craig.

Encouraging comments from Trev on the uke in the thread from the course!

Do you have any further details on the build as yet? What results did some of the tests you ran it through show? Very interested to hear more details.

I'm a little remiss to post on the UU to enquire... :roll:

Jeremy.

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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build

Post by Nick » Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:04 pm

J.F. Custom wrote:I'm a little remiss to post on the UU to enquire... :roll:

Jeremy.
From what I've read on that thread, asking how it's going/sounding would just about be tantamount to a shooting offence wouldn't it Jeremy? :shock: .
Those boys sure take this Uke biz seriously!
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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build

Post by kiwigeo » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:04 pm

Uke-gate
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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build

Post by Clancy » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:41 pm

Hey guys.
I'm writing this from work on my mobile phone.
I won't finish work till after midnight, then off to work again in the morning.
So I won't be able to post the results from the tests till the weekend.
Sorry.
Craig
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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build

Post by J.F. Custom » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:50 pm

Clancy wrote:Hey guys.
I'm writing this from work on my mobile phone.
I won't finish work till after midnight, then off to work again in the morning.
So I won't be able to post the results from the tests till the weekend.
Sorry.
Tsk tsk tsk...

Where are your priorities Mr Clancy ? :?

:wink:

Jeremy.

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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build

Post by Clancy » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:47 pm

Ok, ok. I got home early so here you go.
Built & bound, but no bridge yet.

T(1,1)1 @ 195Hz
T(1,1)2 @ 361Hz
T(1,1)3 @ 455Hz
T(2,1) @ 521 Hz
Craigs Uke.jpg
361 Hz.jpg
361 Hz.jpg (57.16 KiB) Viewed 6286 times
455 Hz (sort of).jpg
455 Hz (sort of).jpg (66.48 KiB) Viewed 6286 times
521Hz.jpg
521Hz.jpg (60.2 KiB) Viewed 6286 times
694Hz.jpg
694Hz.jpg (58 KiB) Viewed 6286 times
120620122469 (Medium).jpg
120620122469 (Medium).jpg (36.64 KiB) Viewed 6286 times
Hopefully I can repeat it all when the bridge on & see what change occurs.
I'm keen to add side mass (if I can) and see if I can get the monopole mode closer to the edge.
The added weight may, of course, make the instrument way too heavy for general acceptance - but this is fun!
Craig
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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build

Post by liam_fnq » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:49 pm

Has the sky fallen down yet?


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