Floyd Rose Bridge fix
- needsmorecowbel
- Blackwood
- Posts: 974
- Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:48 pm
- Location: Melbourne
Floyd Rose Bridge fix
Hey guys,
I have a mate who has a basswood Ibanez with a floyd rose tremolo and he noticed a while back that the bushing for the locator pin of the floyd rose bridge (on the whammy bar side) was not 100% 90 degrees to the body i.e. it had relocated itself due to intense pressure on the threaded bushing (the body is basswood). He also found that the guitar was having tuning issues.
I was thinking the best way to fix this would be to rout/ drill a slightly larger hole after removing the bridge and metal bushing. Then filling that hole with a dowel ( maple). Then redrilling into that stronger dowel and refitting the bridge locator pins/ threaded bushings/ buying new pins/ bushings and fitting these.
This blog suggested that using a broken maple drumstick and cutting it into dowels turned it into quite a simply fix...
Then there are those crazy fixes to ensure the bushings never move:
Any nifty ideas are always much appreciated. It seems to be a fairly common issue but I'd love to hear how most guitar techs deal with it.
Stu
I have a mate who has a basswood Ibanez with a floyd rose tremolo and he noticed a while back that the bushing for the locator pin of the floyd rose bridge (on the whammy bar side) was not 100% 90 degrees to the body i.e. it had relocated itself due to intense pressure on the threaded bushing (the body is basswood). He also found that the guitar was having tuning issues.
I was thinking the best way to fix this would be to rout/ drill a slightly larger hole after removing the bridge and metal bushing. Then filling that hole with a dowel ( maple). Then redrilling into that stronger dowel and refitting the bridge locator pins/ threaded bushings/ buying new pins/ bushings and fitting these.
This blog suggested that using a broken maple drumstick and cutting it into dowels turned it into quite a simply fix...
Then there are those crazy fixes to ensure the bushings never move:
Any nifty ideas are always much appreciated. It seems to be a fairly common issue but I'd love to hear how most guitar techs deal with it.
Stu
- Trevor Gore
- Blackwood
- Posts: 1608
- Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:11 pm
Re: Floyd Rose Bridge fix
I was looking at a similar problem a while back. Replacement posts of different brands come in different sizes, so you may be able to find some oversize ones that will give you a simple fix. Failing that, drilling out and dowelling is an option, but a better option is to cut a plug so you can align the loading onto the end grain. Use as large a plug as you can conveniently get away with without giving yourself a massive re-finishing problem.
Fine classical and steel string guitars
Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.
Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.
Re: Floyd Rose Bridge fix
I would cut and fit a plug, this way the grain direction is correct, a dowel drilled has almost no strength, the area to support needs to be IMO twice the width of the insert, so if its a standard 10mm insert then 20mm hole minimum.
- needsmorecowbel
- Blackwood
- Posts: 974
- Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:48 pm
- Location: Melbourne
Re: Floyd Rose Bridge fix
Thanks for the tips guys it does seem a bit silly to put so much stress on a single bushing/ post when you are using a softer hardwood...
Re: Floyd Rose Bridge fix
Not a Floyd Rose Stu but I found similar substrate issues with a Maton Flamingo when I rebuilt it for a guy prior to last Xmas.
The body wood of these guitars is very soft and 'really' light. It is very much like and probably is in fact, Paulwania, a tropical species logged in QLD among other places and it has properties similar to Balsa. As soft as it is this worked OK because 'originally', these guitars had been fitted with a cheap tin plate knock off of a Bigsby tremolo and the footprint and 5 fixing screws of this hardware spread the load so that it held up well under string tension.
The problems begin when the tin plate trem finally wears out or begins to rust and someone decides to convert to a tune-o-matic bridge with stop-tail..The small patch of hot pink you can see in the next image was the original colour for this particular guitar BTW. At some stage the it had been refinished in SG cherry red and the original hardware was refitted. The smoother dark areas around the post holes are in fact bondo that was used by who ever had stripped the guitar to bare wood and then refinished it in purple estapole..
You see the string spacings of the TOM bridge had been too wide for the very narrow fretboard of Maton Flamingo so in order to narrow the spacing and 'make' the bridge fit their solution had been to set the bridge and tail askew....so much for intonation. The reason it all looks particularly ugly is that a second application of bondo had then been applied in an attempt to repair the post shift caused by the soft wood crushing under load which would have occurred shortly after the guitar had been strung up. This second application of bondo was probably done with the post still installed and caused major problems with the electrics because the bridge post earth wire was no longer in contact and it became buried in bog
I needed to fit a Bigsby as part of the rebuild so my solution had been to use the curved back of the Bigsby, and the back edge of the bridge pickup rout, to form an elongated "D" shaped plug and replace all of the damaged wood in one hit. Doing this placed both tight corners of the plug under the pickgaurd and meant the only areas where any tell tail epoxy sink back could reveal itself if it occurred after the guitar was sprayed would run parallel with the grain either side of the Bigsby and therefore not be overly be noticeable.
This may all be over-kill for your problem Stu but I thought I would show this stuff any how as it may offer you another possible solution on a smaller scale. As a first stop on your the guitar you have at hand perhaps I would try the dowel solution but after drilling and before fitting them, I would apply a very thin epoxy to the fresh bass wood to firm it up. I don't recall what the product is called but by thin epoxy I am referring to a product I used many years ago to re-secure dry rotted plywood in the transom of a power boat. The product is water like and soaks 'in' to the wood filling the cells making it quite strong. Once applied you could re-drill and fit your dowels. If the epoxy sounds too much trouble, I would at least do the same with thin CA or the same thing may happen as the hardwood dowels crush the basswood to tilt forward again. EDIT: Must agree with Steve that cutting your own plug is a better option than a dowel but I would still secure the basswood as described.
Cheers
Kim
The body wood of these guitars is very soft and 'really' light. It is very much like and probably is in fact, Paulwania, a tropical species logged in QLD among other places and it has properties similar to Balsa. As soft as it is this worked OK because 'originally', these guitars had been fitted with a cheap tin plate knock off of a Bigsby tremolo and the footprint and 5 fixing screws of this hardware spread the load so that it held up well under string tension.
The problems begin when the tin plate trem finally wears out or begins to rust and someone decides to convert to a tune-o-matic bridge with stop-tail..The small patch of hot pink you can see in the next image was the original colour for this particular guitar BTW. At some stage the it had been refinished in SG cherry red and the original hardware was refitted. The smoother dark areas around the post holes are in fact bondo that was used by who ever had stripped the guitar to bare wood and then refinished it in purple estapole..
You see the string spacings of the TOM bridge had been too wide for the very narrow fretboard of Maton Flamingo so in order to narrow the spacing and 'make' the bridge fit their solution had been to set the bridge and tail askew....so much for intonation. The reason it all looks particularly ugly is that a second application of bondo had then been applied in an attempt to repair the post shift caused by the soft wood crushing under load which would have occurred shortly after the guitar had been strung up. This second application of bondo was probably done with the post still installed and caused major problems with the electrics because the bridge post earth wire was no longer in contact and it became buried in bog
I needed to fit a Bigsby as part of the rebuild so my solution had been to use the curved back of the Bigsby, and the back edge of the bridge pickup rout, to form an elongated "D" shaped plug and replace all of the damaged wood in one hit. Doing this placed both tight corners of the plug under the pickgaurd and meant the only areas where any tell tail epoxy sink back could reveal itself if it occurred after the guitar was sprayed would run parallel with the grain either side of the Bigsby and therefore not be overly be noticeable.
This may all be over-kill for your problem Stu but I thought I would show this stuff any how as it may offer you another possible solution on a smaller scale. As a first stop on your the guitar you have at hand perhaps I would try the dowel solution but after drilling and before fitting them, I would apply a very thin epoxy to the fresh bass wood to firm it up. I don't recall what the product is called but by thin epoxy I am referring to a product I used many years ago to re-secure dry rotted plywood in the transom of a power boat. The product is water like and soaks 'in' to the wood filling the cells making it quite strong. Once applied you could re-drill and fit your dowels. If the epoxy sounds too much trouble, I would at least do the same with thin CA or the same thing may happen as the hardwood dowels crush the basswood to tilt forward again. EDIT: Must agree with Steve that cutting your own plug is a better option than a dowel but I would still secure the basswood as described.
Cheers
Kim
- needsmorecowbel
- Blackwood
- Posts: 974
- Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:48 pm
- Location: Melbourne
Re: Floyd Rose Bridge fix
Thanks Kim that is a really tidy fix...I'll make sure I glue it with something suitable.
So this would be the best grain configuration?
So this would be the best grain configuration?
- needsmorecowbel
- Blackwood
- Posts: 974
- Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:48 pm
- Location: Melbourne
Re: Floyd Rose Bridge fix
haha only just realised that was bog....classic
- Nick
- Blackwood
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:20 am
- Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
- Contact:
Re: Floyd Rose Bridge fix
Man, that is one FUGLY guitar Kim
Sorry Stu, didn't mean to focus away from your problem but couldn't help myself:oops:
Sorry Stu, didn't mean to focus away from your problem but couldn't help myself:oops:
"Jesus Loves You."
Nice to hear in church but not in a Mexican prison.
Nice to hear in church but not in a Mexican prison.
Re: Floyd Rose Bridge fix
Yeah its ugly but after youve met Kim Im sure youll find that the guitar is quite beautifulNick wrote:Man, that is one FUGLY guitar Kim
Martin
- needsmorecowbel
- Blackwood
- Posts: 974
- Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:48 pm
- Location: Melbourne
Re: Floyd Rose Bridge fix
AHEM * This isn't a Michael Thames thread...be merry and laugh and poke fun. I already have a very good mental image of how to fix the problem so do not feel that you have hijacked the thread .
Stu
Stu
Re: Floyd Rose Bridge fix
I don't know Nick, with a refin, some relicing of new paint and hardware they take on a certain mojo that kind of grows on ya after a while. Could not buy the right material so making a five ply pickgaurd out of odds and sods was a PIA (two black layers together to get the thickness I was after) but worth the effort cause there's something about vintage white, aged nickel and alloy, and a bit of tortoise that looks about right to me ...and without a doubt, the Maton Flamingo is by 'far' the lightest electric guitar I have ever held. The owner was pretty happy with the outcome also and that's the main thing.Nick wrote:Man, that is one FUGLY guitar Kim
As luck would have it I managed to get hold of a NOS curly "M" logo from Maton. Even so, salvaging a water slide decal 'that' old so it could be used was an interesting journey, they are cellulose based and crack to pieces over time the same as a coat of nitro will. Believe it or not I also found some water slide decal restoring solution on ebay. You spray the decal with this stuff before you drop it in water and it helps hold it together so you can slide the decal into position....probable would work OK on a basic decal but on something as fine as the curly "M" it was not the great panacea so I had to fill in with a fine brush and white paint. Tinting to get the age back in the decal was done by layering up tinted shellac. It was then hit with straight clear nitro to level it off.
Headstock before:
Headstock after:
Sorry for the hijack Stu.. But I had to defend the old bird
Kim
- needsmorecowbel
- Blackwood
- Posts: 974
- Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:48 pm
- Location: Melbourne
Re: Floyd Rose Bridge fix
That's a cool looking guitar. No hijack at all
-
- Blackwood
- Posts: 146
- Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:09 pm
- Location: Perth, WA
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 157 guests