Plastic binding/purfling help....

[nnickusa]

I've got a project going on that I intend to use pearl celluloid binding with a multi-ply BWBWBWB purfling. Not because I want that much, but, because I had a slip with the router and needed that much to cover the gouge.

Here's a look. My issue is that it's a massive task to try and get them all in at once.

I'm thinking of gluing in the binding first, and then filling in the purfling lines, in the way Chris Paulick did in his tute on the ablam he showed us.

Has anyone done this? and if so, is there any advice? My inclination is to do the binding first, and then feed the purfs into a bed of cement....


Thanks. I'm hoping to figure this out, as I bought a couple hundred black and a couple hundred white purfling strips, and would hate to use them as tooth floss......

[Nick]

The way I bind multi layers of plastic Nick is to do them all at once. Admittedly you have to work quickly as once the glue starts to soften the plastic it doesn't take long to effect a bond! Cut many many bits of tape and hang them from the edge of your table/bench, the last thing you want to be doing is farting around cutting or tearing off bits of tape halfway through a run!
You'll want to do the body in sections too, neck to horn, horn to mid lower bout, lower bout to opposite lower bout, lower bout to horn then horn back to neck.
Start from your neck end. Lay out your binding on the bench beside the guitar in the order you want it. You want to be able to grab it all at once and not have to muck about putting the combinations in their right places.
This is where it starts to get hectic so make sure nothing's to get in your way once you start and that your tape, that now waits on the edge of your bench, is within easy reach.
Put a short run of glue (about two inches, 50mm's worth) at the start of each layer of binding/purf and roughly put them together into your 'stack' then put a bead of glue in your binding channel (and on the purfling ledge if you are using the smaller height of purf) around to about the horn area (so that the binding/purf is always coming off and away from the body rather than into the body), quickly place your now gluing binding stack into the channel and tape the start tightly to the body.
This next bit would be better showing you as a video but I'll just have to go with words unfortunately begin, using a thumb on top of the stack and your index finger on the face, & run your fingers away from where you just taped, pushing the stack into the body as you go. The beads you put on between the strips before, will now run along each strip as it gets 'pushed ahead' of the closing joint thereby gluing each strip to it's neighbour. Once you've gotten around that tight 'internal' bend of the horn, apply tape tightly to what you've done.
Once you get around to the external curve of the horn (and where the channel glue runs out!) put a piece of tape, fan out the unglued strips by placing a finger in between each layer and apply more glue to the sides of the strips, this time put a slightly longer run on because this lot is going to have to last until you get to the lower bout. Once you've done that put a run of glue into your body channel up to the mid point of the lower bout (so that when you've completed this section the strips are hanging away from the body, so it's easier to apply the glue) and repeat the squeezing and running fingers along trick. The binding may come away from the body but don't worry too much as it's the glue that we want to be spreading more at this stage. Once you've gotten to the end of your glue run go back and pull everything back into the body channel with your tape (bind as normal in otherwords). Tape at end of the glue again so it holds the binding in the glue. Cut more tape at this time if you think you're going to need more.
The rest is just a continuation of this process. Bob Benedetto shows this process off far more eloquently in his video/DVD "Making an archtop guitar" than I can explain it here, so if you know of somebody with a copy try and get hold of it, otherwise you could be stuck with my rambling explanation .
The more you do it the easier it gets but you may want to have a few dry runs to start with just to make sure you have your process down pat, the last thing you want to be doing is messing about when there's glue on your plastic.
You'll also want to leave the binding/purf stack taped up for preferably 24 hours before scraping flush as with that amount of glue about it would have softened the plastic quite a bit.

[Kim]

+1 on leaving it be at least 24hrs before scrapping back.

I would leave it a few days to be sure the glue has gasses off out of the plastic completely, because if you jump in too soon and get things nice and flush, you will get considerable sink back as the acetone plumped plastic returns back to its normal size.

Cheers

Kim

[nnickusa]

OK. Thanks guys. I'm planning to do, from this advice, one discreet section at a time. This is an Iceman shape, and as such there are a few mitres to deal with. I can go from the horn to the tail in one go, then fill in the inside of the horn and the other side next. Likely to leave each section for at least a day before starting the next bit....I'm guessing a scalpel would cut the binding/purf combination OK? Or is there something else I need to make the mitres. I don't think I'll be able to pull them off all at once....

[Kim]

Use a really sharp chisel Nick. If you have the back of the chisel well polished you can use it like a mirror, it will reflect the angle of the cut your about to make. It still takes a bit of practice keeping the cut perpendicular, but that's the way to do it.

Image stolen from internet cause I I'm too lazy to find mine:



Cheers

Kim

[nnickusa]

Done. Let you know how it turns out in a week or so. Gotta get started on Jack's guitar....

[Nick]

Use a really sharp chisel Nick. If you have the back of the chisel well polished you can use it like a mirror, it will reflect the angle of the cut your about to make. It still takes a bit of practice keeping the cut perpendicular, but that's the way to do it.

Cheers

Kim

+1 . Can't beat a SHARP chisel. Cut a 'dummy' ledge on a bit of scrap and use some scrap binding and practice cutting the mitre until you are happy with how your joint comes out. another tip is try not to take too big a cut with your chisel! You only looking at shaving the excess off. Trim up close to remove the bulk with a pair of sidecutters.
Cut your mitres on the guitar once the glue has well & truly dried and scraped close to flush! It's the only way you can truly see what the joint will look like when finally scraped down, if you do it with binding protruding, it may look right but then when you scape back you may find the cut wan't square/perpendicular and a gap appears at the face.

[nnickusa]

Roger....

[nnickusa]

As I have 6 discreet sections to bind and purfle(is that a word?) I'm trying a couple methods to acomplish this binding. The first side, due to the stickiness of the glue, I did bindings first, with teflon spacing strips, then flooded the channel with glue and fed the purfling into that. Worked well, and the reason I did it that way is that managing 6-8 microscopic(to my eyes) strips of material at the same time was daunting. Gonna try next section I do all at once......

I'm looking at this as a learning experience, and I'm keeping this guitar, as the vintage parts that will make it up will also make it ridiculous to sell at a profit.....

[Nick]

Looking good so far Nick

The first side, due to the stickiness of the glue, I did bindings first, with teflon spacing strips, then flooded the channel with glue and fed the purfling into that. Worked well, and the reason I did it that way is that managing 6-8 microscopic(to my eyes) strips of material at the same time was daunting. Gonna try next section I do all at once......

At the end of the day you should do it which ever way you feel comfortable, if this method suits you the best then I for one, say go for it. Luthiery proves that there's more than one way to remove the epidermis from a Felis Catus.

[nnickusa]

Clearly, I need to re-do the F-N holes to match,,,,,,,bugger......

[nnickusa]

Thanks, Nick. Yeah, the one thing I've learned so far is that there is no one right way....Let you all know how it goes,,,,,,,well, if you're interested......

[Nick]

well, if you're interested......

Thought that went without saying Nick

[nnickusa]

OK, first side went well doing the binding first, then feeding the purfling into the channel left by the teflon strips. For the other side, I tried all of it together. Also went pretty well, but I did "lose" a purfling line here and there. It'll do for now.....

Funny how well the mitre fit together when there was no glue involved. Fit beautiofully in fact. As soon as glue was introduced into the equation, thjings went a little off. I'm happy enough with it for a first effort, so I'll leave that too....

The tiny plastic purfling is quite a challenge to manoeuvre. Wood at least sort of sticks together. This stuff simply flies apart. I hope to get the hang of it, because I think it's a great look..

Couple pix....

[GregL]

Looks great Nick! Gotta love the Iceman shape (but then, I've got an Explorer, so maybe I've got "acquired" tastes?).
What shape is the headstock?
Will you have an access panel on the back for the electrics?

Thanks,
GregL.

[Crafty Fox]

Great job, I love it. Well worth the effort.

[Kim]

Good work Nick

[nnickusa]

Cheers.

It's a new technique, and I'd like to offer it to someone in the future, so i want to be good at using the plastic bindings.

Greg, it's got a proper Iceman headstock, and an access panel in the rear, but I can't reduce any more photos today.....

I also debated using some Ivory coloured binding, but the pearl celluloid just sort of seemed the right way to go......