Wayde Christie wrote:Ormsby Guitars wrote:Whilst I do not agree with crowd funding for startups in luthiery, it's s great way to build the business if you handle it properly.
Thanks for chiming in Perry
What is it about crowd-funding in lutherie that you don't agree with?
Being an innovator in the space, I'm really interested to hear your perspective.
I believe luthiery is a very high skill set. Regardless of acoustic, electric, or repairer. You either have to have a natural ability, or a damn long time practising.
During my courses, Ive seen guys (some who came back multiple times) either 'get it', or really have to work at it. Hand skills with tools can take time.
Building a few guitars is cool. But if you are new to woodwork, its just the start. There is LOTS to learn. And that learning shouldnt be done at the customers dime.
When I started out, I already had two full woodworking apprenticeships under my belt, had been both a consultant and trainer in the cabinet making industry, apprentice of the year nominations, highest marks ever recorded at Tafe for a cabinet maker apprentice, etc etc. Id been on the cabinet makers association committee for a number of years, and had a passion for woodworking. I was being offered jobs on a near weekly bases by companies trying to head hunt me. I had the woodwork side covered.
So to convert all my skills across to guitar making was simply a case of "ok, well, thats just like doing this, and this is just like doing that... carving a top is like carving out a bowl, and a set neck is like a mortice, etc etc" It was easy for me, Id basically done it all before, however nothing I had made previously had "sung". :/
I basically had a 'head start' over anyone else starting to build guitars, as most only start with a hobby background in woodwork (or in a lot of cases, virtually zero background). To fund these guys would be taking a huge risk. They are learning to build guitars, they are learning to run a business, they are learning to live (most new guys trying to start out are 18-25 these days, fifteen years ago it seemed to be 40+), they are learning to use a chisel, they are learning cashflow, etc etc.
When I started out, I was fortunate enough to have a bit of money stashed away. My mortgage was paid up a year or so ahead. My car payments were ahead. Little debt. Low cost of living, and a partner on a good wage. But it was a major struggle, especially when you split with your partner within 12 months. I would sit around waiting for a setup to come through, to be able to get money for petrol to drive home.... or lunch
I had a lot of the hand tools needed. It was just a case of picking up a hand full (arm fulls?) of little specialist tools as I could.
If I had been given a wad of cash right then, it would have been helpful. But there would be much more benefit to get it a few years later. Was the business going to work? Would it be successful? Would I need to work at Bunnings to support the business?
Luckily for me, I had property, which was sold to fund my business. I lost a house. I gained a workshop that was too expensive, and filled it with machinery I would never have been able to buy otherwise. If it wasnt for that sale, I would be years behind where I am now.
I want to see a guy struggle to get orders, struggle to get cashflow, and struggle to get his skills up, before I will donate money to help him out. That struggle makes us. It forces you to learn. It changes the way you think. I didnt offer a mentorship to anyone that had been trying to sell for less than five years.
Sully's kickstarter was a project I helped him with. We spent a long time planning before it was announced. It wasnt to get him started, it was to get him in a position to go full time, give him a little nest egg for emergencies, and upgrade some major parts of his home workshop. He had ten years of building under his belt. Working a few hours a night and all weekend wasnt giving him enough cashflow to equal his wages. He needed to sign on more work for security, but couldnt in fear of not being able to spend enough time in the workshop due to a "job". The kickstarter was the solution: get a number of orders to create decent cashflow and workload, upgrade and purchase materials, stock and machinery to assist, and lastly, make a big announcement that he is making the step up. It worked, exactly as we planned.
And thats a lot different to being new to the game, with no clients, hoping for a full workshop of tools to be basically donated to you.
There is nothing wrong with asking for money. Nothing. But I think funding a new luthiery business with hardly any real world experience in the trade, is a disaster waiting to happen. There is simply too much to learn, too many things to discover, and too much practice needed... and getting a wad of cash doesnt help out. And thats exactly where this OP was at.
