Lacquer on a Classical Guitar

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zendo
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Lacquer on a Classical Guitar

Post by zendo » Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:49 am

Hello All:

I have completed my third Classical Guitar... I am considering the lacquer finish... I don't want to French Polish this one... I am also considering Courtnall's idea of brushing with a Squirrel hair 1" brush instead of spraying (from England or anyone know a local place to purchase) ... sanding lightly between coats... I am also researching the varnishes... currently considering Cabot's water based polyurethane from Bunnings called Intergrain Ultrafloor Gloss... and maybe French Polishing for the soundboard only... any ideas, suggestions, oppositions welcomed... this is a research project... cheers, Robert

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kiwigeo
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Re: Lacquer on a Classical Guitar

Post by kiwigeo » Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:24 am

zendo wrote:Hello All:

I have completed my third Classical Guitar... I am considering the lacquer finish... I don't want to French Polish this one... I am also considering Courtnall's idea of brushing with a Squirrel hair 1" brush instead of spraying (from England or anyone know a local place to purchase) ... sanding lightly between coats... I am also researching the varnishes... currently considering Cabot's water based polyurethane from Bunnings called Intergrain Ultrafloor Gloss... and maybe French Polishing for the soundboard only... any ideas, suggestions, oppositions welcomed... this is a research project... cheers, Robert
Hi Robert,

I'd french polish the top and go for a water base laquer such as KTM or similar for the back and sides. GuitarAustralia has some equivalent products: https://www.guitaraust.com.au/finishing ... quers.html

If finish durability is the reason you're steering away from French polish then consider french polishing with hard shellac.
Martin

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Re: Lacquer on a Classical Guitar

Post by Jeremy D » Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:33 am

Funny you should mention that Martin. I was just reading in the Gore books about this process (hard shellac), Have you done it before? I have never actually french polished anything before and I wondered how difficult it would be.
Jeremy D

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Re: Lacquer on a Classical Guitar

Post by kiwigeo » Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:44 am

Jeremy D wrote:Funny you should mention that Martin. I was just reading in the Gore books about this process (hard shellac), Have you done it before? I have never actually french polished anything before and I wondered how difficult it would be.
Jeremy,

I'm french polishing using Robert Shines hard shellac. The process is the same as french polishing with normal shellac but because of the cross linking that goes on once the finish is applied it's important to not wait too long between bodying sessions.

In the books Trevor also covers his method of applying hard shellac where he uses a mix of meths and acetone as an azeotropic mix. I haven't tried this method but plan to do so on future builds. One advantage of this method is it is quick and it also results in filling of any pores not filled prior to finishing.

I wouldn't say French polishing is difficult.......it just takes a bit of time to develop your technique and everyone's technique is slightly different.
Martin

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Re: Lacquer on a Classical Guitar

Post by Jeremy D » Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:05 pm

Thanks Martin,

I was referring to the azeotropic mix, I didn't realise people were polishing guitars as normal with hard shellac. How do you think the shines hard shellac holds up durability wise with lacquer?
Jeremy D

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Re: Lacquer on a Classical Guitar

Post by kiwigeo » Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:37 pm

Jeremy D wrote:Thanks Martin,

I was referring to the azeotropic mix, I didn't realise people were polishing guitars as normal with hard shellac. How do you think the shines hard shellac holds up durability wise with lacquer?
Ive only just started using the hard shellac. Trevor reckons it's as durable as alot of synthetic finishes. As an aside, all my previous builds have been french polished with normal shellac and theyre holding up surprisingly well....theyre owned by this chick:
KYLIE SEQUENCE copy.jpg
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Martin

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Re: Lacquer on a Classical Guitar

Post by blackalex1952 » Tue Jan 19, 2016 1:30 pm

I recently visited a luthier who used hard shellac on a guitar he made ten years ago...the finish is crazed badly-something going on with the finish or the way it was applied. Has anyone had experience with this issue?
"Everything I say on the topic is based solely upon inexperience and assumption!"

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Re: Lacquer on a Classical Guitar

Post by kiwigeo » Tue Jan 19, 2016 1:55 pm

blackalex1952 wrote:I recently visited a luthier who used hard shellac on a guitar he made ten years ago...the finish is crazed badly-something going on with the finish or the way it was applied. Has anyone had experience with this issue?
If the finish was applied 10 years ago he would have used Ubeaut's Hard Shellac but the old formula which has since been improved. Note that the stuff Trevor (and I) use is made by Robert Rae...the formula is slightly different. Note that if you ring Robert he will discuss your needs and adjust the formula accordingly. The stuff I got was slightly twigged from the stuff that Robert supplies to Trevor.
Martin

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Re: Lacquer on a Classical Guitar

Post by Crafty Fox » Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:33 pm

blackalex1952 wrote:I recently visited a luthier who used hard shellac on a guitar he made ten years ago...the finish is crazed badly-something going on with the finish or the way it was applied. Has anyone had experience with this issue?
I had the very same problem on my first few guitars. I only sanded and re-finished #5 as the others weren't good enough to re-do. It was U-Beaut Hard Shellac, and even though I heard they changed the formula I've never used it since. I'd like to know if anyone else has been using it with good results lately because I can buy it in Perth but I haven't seen any other substitute here.
Ken

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Re: Lacquer on a Classical Guitar

Post by kiwigeo » Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:03 pm

From the Ubeaut website:

"NEW IMPROVED FORMULA
In February 2009 we began adding a plasticiser to Hard Shellac. This gives elasticity to the cured finish, to combat crazing on the thin walls of musical instruments, whilst still having the same high resistance to marking from water, alcohol and heat it has always had."
Martin

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Re: Lacquer on a Classical Guitar

Post by jeffhigh » Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:46 pm

I've used the new formulation from u-beaut on half a dozen instruments with no problems. Fortunately I was still using tru-oil and then regular shellac when the first lot was around.

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