New Build - Falcate OM

[Steve.Toscano]

Thought I'd do a build thread for a change.
I have 3 on the go at the moment - A Fleta, a Hauser style classical, and a Falcate OM (kinkade shape). I have chosen the OM for this build thread as it's the most recently started so can be documented from the beginning, but might pop some photos from the other 2 in here and there.

Apologies in advance if it's slow moving - i'm really only a weekend warrior.

Specs:
Engelman top
Ovangkol B&S from here: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=7168
King Billy Falcate bracing
Qld Maple neck
K&K pure Mini pickup

Back strip

Back

Completed back.
This guitar is going to a professional muso and will mostly be used for live performances plugged in - for that reason (among others) I chose a non live back.

Back braced

I got the apprentice (the missus) in to make the rosette - which she is yet to finish. She wanted to make a mosaic of some sort, So i handed her the offcuts of ovangkol, a Japanese saw, a plane, a strip of BWB and off she went. When I spotted what she was doing i realised I had seen this style before - turns out it's quite similar to the rosette in Martin's recent build. Sorry Martin, she informed me she hadn't seen your build thread.

Rosette1

Rosette 2

..

And a sneak peak of where the Fleta build is up to:

Fleta

[kiwigeo]

King Billy pine for the bracing....I'd re-consider the choice of woods. You'll notice in my OM thread I ended up having to make a new top as the KB I used for the top bracing wasn't stiff enough. If you're dead set on using KB then I'd definitely do some stiffness measurements on the bracing stock. I'd also recommend making the top bracing a tad wider and higher than that specified in the books.

[Steve.Toscano]

King Billy pine for the bracing....I'd re-consider the choice of woods. You'll notice in my OM thread I ended up having to make a new top as the KB I used for the top bracing wasn't stiff enough. If you're dead set on using KB then I'd definitely do some stiffness measurements on the bracing stock. I'd also recommend making the top bracing a tad wider and higher than that specified in the books.

Thanks for the heads up Martin, this is my 5th Falcate with King Billy braces and i havent had one that wasn't stiff enough yet (first is my main guitar which is now pushing 5yrs of age).
I do the primaries and secondaries 6mm wide by 9mm high (under the bridge). For the finger braces and upper transverse i use engelman.

I laminate 2 pieces for the primaries and 3 for the secondaries.

I've never done measurements on my King Billy stock, one day i will do that.

[Steve.Toscano]

Martin a just skimmed sections of your build thread, my guess is where you might have gone wrong on that first top is the top thickness?? If i read correctly you had it at 2.7, this seems a tad on the thin side.

My engelman i do at 3.1 (assume finishes at 3.0 after sanding) in the middle and 2.7 at the edges.

[kiwigeo]

Martin a just skimmed sections of your build thread, my guess is where you might have gone wrong on that first top is the top thickness?? If i read correctly you had it at 2.7, this seems a tad on the thin side.

My engelman i do at 3.1 (assume finishes at 3.0 after sanding) in the middle and 2.7 at the edges.

The top thickness was calculated using the equations in the books. The swiss spruce I used is fairly stiff. The problem I had was definitely the KBP.....stiffness of the stuff was very low (4GPa).

[J.F. Custom]

King Billy pine for the bracing....I'd re-consider the choice of woods.

It's not so much the species as the piece. Although KB at it's best still does not really reach the standards set by the spruces, it should be capable of the job. King Billy Pine seems to vary quite a bit in stiffness. I've had some I would not blink at using - very stiff with bright tap tone. Other material I've handled has superficially seemed similar, but was seriously flexible like cardboard and tapped somewhat more like it too.

Testing it is the obvious way of clearly seeing what you're dealing with, particularly if you're trying to hit certain targets. But even simple handling will give you an idea of it's suitability. I'd say luck was not on your side Martin, while Felix is likely to have more suitable material on hand.

Jeremy.

[Steve.Toscano]

100% agree Jeremy. Ill try to do some tests on my stock this wkd.
To ad to the king billy as a species:
The AGMS at toronto has made over 300 guitars now. Assuming a third of these are falcate braced guitars; there's around 100 falcate king billy guitars out there.
Im not saying that king billy is better by any means, but its certainly the case that it will work (if you find the right stuff).

For me its much easier to find stiff king billy then bendable spruce. Ive gone through 4 varieties from 7 different suppliers and im yet to come across the bendable stuff .
Yet i now have enough stiff and very bendable king billy to make over 50 guitars - top and back braces - at my rate around 3 lifetimes worth.

[kiwigeo]

Agreed the King Billy Pine I used was of exceptionally limp and I should have tested stiffness (something I do now). That said I'm having better results using spruce and here in Adelaide it's alot easier for me to use spruce as I have a large stock of spruce bracing while KBP is a hard to source.

[seeaxe]

Martin, can I ask how many plies you use when bending spruce for the falcate braces?

I am yet to start one of these beasts (but its in the forward plan) and I have Buckley's chance of finding King Billy over here in Godzone. If I use thinner plies - eg four to a brace - I would have thought it would work OK?

Sorry to hijack your thread Felix......

Cheers
Richard

[kiwigeo]

Martin, can I ask how many plies you use when bending spruce for the falcate braces?

I am yet to start one of these beasts (but its in the forward plan) and I have Buckley's chance of finding King Billy over here in Godzone. If I use thinner plies - eg four to a brace - I would have thought it would work OK?

Sorry to hijack your thread Felix......

Cheers
Richard

Richard,

I use a three ply laminate as per the books. As long as the spruce bracing stock is cut on the quarter it should bend ok.

[Dave M]

Richard for the particular spruce I had, I had to use 4 plies for the secondaries. The stuff just wouldn't go round the curve any thicker. Which is OK. Not too much extra work and may lead to a stiffer brace anyway.

Dave

[Mark McLean]

I have only done one so far. I used Sitka, on the quarter, in 3 plys and had no trouble getting it to bend to the required shapes. I might be lucky with the batch I have, but good grain orientation undoubtedly makes a difference.