Some news + designing a dream workshop?

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peter.coombe
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Re: Some news + designing a dream workshop?

Post by peter.coombe » Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:23 am

I have electric floor heating in my slab of the house, but not the workshop. It works great and is cheap to run because it uses off peak power. You do not need to insulate under the slab, but you do need to insulate around the edge of the slab. In fact you get a greater thermal mass if you do not insulate under the slab because the slab couples to the ground. We have big windows north facing so the sun warms the slab during the day. It is important not to set your thermostats too high or else it does start to cost. I set them to 16deg so the slab heating only cuts in if the temperature drops under 16deg during the night. You can set them a bit higher in the living areas, but not a good idea to set them higher in the bedrooms. Cost was only $150 last 3 month bill, so I only pay around $300 pa for the floor heating, and that is for a large 4 bedroom house. The workshop uses the sun to warm the slab. Get the orientation right to use the sun for 6 months of the year, and you can save heaps on heating costs.
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kiwigeo
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Re: Some news + designing a dream workshop?

Post by kiwigeo » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:11 am

peter.coombe wrote:I have electric floor heating in my slab of the house, but not the workshop. It works great and is cheap to run because it uses off peak power. You do not need to insulate under the slab, but you do need to insulate around the edge of the slab. In fact you get a greater thermal mass if you do not insulate under the slab because the slab couples to the ground. We have big windows north facing so the sun warms the slab during the day. It is important not to set your thermostats too high or else it does start to cost. I set them to 16deg so the slab heating only cuts in if the temperature drops under 16deg during the night. You can set them a bit higher in the living areas, but not a good idea to set them higher in the bedrooms. Cost was only $150 last 3 month bill, so I only pay around $300 pa for the floor heating, and that is for a large 4 bedroom house. The workshop uses the sun to warm the slab. Get the orientation right to use the sun for 6 months of the year, and you can save heaps on heating costs.
Pete, whether or not you insulate under the slab depends on the ground temperature (ie geothermal gradient). If there isn't a hug difference between annual above and below ground temperatures then you can get away with a ground coupled slab but if the ground is significantly colder than average air temperatures then you need to insulate under the slab. I'm about to do a passive solar build here in Adelaide and the slab will definitely have insulation all round. Something else Im looking at is an energy recovery ventilation system that recovers 95% of the energy from air being exhausted from the house and transfers it to the incoming air. With one of these units you can get away with minimal heating other than that which youre getting from the sun.
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Re: Some news + designing a dream workshop?

Post by demonx » Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:40 pm

Truss's and supports assembled ready to be stood up.
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Re: Some news + designing a dream workshop?

Post by kiwigeo » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:11 pm

Doesn't look like a good day for building........youve got a few more days of rain on the way :mrgreen:
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Re: Some news + designing a dream workshop?

Post by demonx » Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:19 pm

kiwigeo wrote:Doesn't look like a good day for building........youve got a few more days of rain on the way :mrgreen:
You're not wrong. It's just slush out there.

I have two other sheds at other locations and I was visiting one today only to discover in the recent downpour my old workshop had flooded. Luckily nothing was damaged that I am worried about as everything there is on stands or racks. All my machinery is in storage in another shed so it was safe. I appears that one of the gutters was blocked and all the stormwater redirected itself over the top of the cladding and into the shed. Not an ideal situation however nature will find a way to make things interesting.

I still haven't finished the drainage (rainwater redirection) for this new shed, things are progressing slowly as I have injuries in both arms, it's a bit of a running joke at the moment that I'm bloody useless, so things are progressing much slower than planned.

I'll get there in the end!

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Re: Some news + designing a dream workshop?

Post by demonx » Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:43 pm

Bit of progress:
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Ormsby Guitars

Re: Some news + designing a dream workshop?

Post by Ormsby Guitars » Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:52 am

Nice! What are the two sections at each end for?

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Re: Some news + designing a dream workshop?

Post by demonx » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:37 pm

Ormsby Guitars wrote:Nice! What are the two sections at each end for?
The frame is actually split up into four main rooms, later I'll be splitting that up a little more as per needed.

The reasoning behind the separation is that I want some rooms as clean air workspaces, some will be dirty, then I also want a couple rooms for working and timber storage which will be fully insulated like inside a house and will have dehumidifiers, although the entire shed is going to have thick (1cm ish) sizilation to all walls and ceiling.

I can be doing drum sanding and thicknessing in a dirty room, then walk into a clean room where the air is fresh and be doing hand work in there without dust floating through the air and into my lungs. Even though there will be large room air filters, it'll create a better working environment.

I noticed in the last workshop that the CNC room also was a "dirty" room, so again I'll have this separate to my main work area, however this time I'll have a room filter in there.

Also by separating the rooms, I can have roof lighting on separate switches, I found in the last workshop that lighting the entire place all day and running the room air filters was quite noticeable on the power bill, this time I can have my main work room lit while the others are dark if I'm not using those rooms, the air filters can be off etc. I'm also goin full "daylight" LED for this build to keep the lighting bill down, plus it has environmental benefits. It'll save money over the long run. There are 48 LED's going in.

Also by having a smaller workroom, I can have aircon and wood heater in there without trying to temp control the entire 252sqm and I can be quite comfortable, the other rooms don't need that.

It may seem bizarre having it all separated like this, however before I designed this shed, I drew up a layout of all my machinery and the order it's used in the build process so that I can create a smooth workflow and also control all the things I mentioned above. Then also room to expand.

For example, my large bandsaw, docking saw and those type tools only get used on raw materials, so they are stored near the pallet racks of raw timber storage. They don't need to be in my main workroom. Then once the raw timber is at the thicknessing/dressing stage I can move it across to the dirty room where it can be planed or drum sanded etc, those machines don't need to be in a temperature controlled room.

I've gone through every process and created a work station for each so there is a flow like in a factory, dedicated gluing stations, dedicated electrical stations, instead of using my couple of workbenches for everything like in the past, there will be a work bench for each process, including a separate area just for acoustics so I don't have to setup jigs etc just for that, as it'll already be setup. In my plan there is nearly forty lineal meters or work benches in the place, which should help with a workflow.

It will mean I can have a lot more builds running at once without having to move things out of the way, or I can have more people working in there at once without being in each other's way, which was a problem I had at the last workshop.

If I doesn't work out as planned, it's only metal sheet and top hat and can be pulled out and moved around.

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Re: Some news + designing a dream workshop?

Post by Ormsby Guitars » Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:57 am

Pretty much what we are doing at the new place too.

GTRs are stored at one end with a dedicated shipping area. Wood storage is next, with a panel saw and bandsaw in the main area. Then a machining room for the rest of the machines to limit dust movement. The roof is a mezzanine for extra storage. Machine room has its own air conditioner and dust filter.

Lunch room faces the external main window so we can see people coming in. Once again a mezzanine above.

Paint storage and mixing roof and booth is out the back and constructed with freezer panels to control temperature.

Set up room will have nothing but assembly and pickup winding tools so it's ultra clean. Air conditioned.

The main floor has workbenches everywhere including dedicated sanding benches with downflow extraction, a fretting 'cove', gluing station and press.

Eventually we will enclose the rear yard which has already been concreted in preparation, for enough space to store an extra 300 guitars.

Bunnings have 33mm round edge, 1800mm long bench sections on sale at the moment. We're $35 each, currently $7 each. We bought 15 of them. Moisture resistant particle board (kitchen bench tops without laminate).

The walls are double brick and painted white. Roof is tin with 50mm insulation. We replaced all the lights with LED flouros but with all the walls and roof white or cream they actually don't do anything on a sunny day when the back roller door is open. We have skylights and a evaporative air conditioner also.

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Re: Some news + designing a dream workshop?

Post by GregL » Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:34 am

Hi Perry,

You said "Bunnings have 33mm round edge, 1800mm long bench sections on sale at the moment. We're $35 each, currently $7 each." - do you know what Bunnings calls them? I had a quick look and can't find those panels on special - I could do with another bench! (My local Bunnings is Lismore, northeastern NSW)

Thanks,
GregL.

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Re: Some news + designing a dream workshop?

Post by demonx » Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:48 am

Sounds very similar in the thought process, with a few minor differences. For example I'm not storing imports, however there is space in my other shed here to use for storage, or in the upper level of the house (the guitar wing!)

One thing you haven't mentioned is security. I've run underground data cabling and will have video cameras in each room that I can log into from a mobile phone app as well as all the usual sensors and deadlocks blah blah blah. It's the same system I had in my old workshop but newer version has cameras. Outdoor flood lights as well.

I also have nine windows spread out for the purpose of seeing people come in, but it's also a for of ventilation. One mistake I made in the old workshop was having 6'x6' windows, however I'd broken the glass more than once from stones being thrown by the mower, so these windows are more slimline and will be mounted head height. So it's not an issue. The larger ones also meant I couldn't put benches etc in front of them which took up wall space, these ones I will be able to.

There is no paint booth in this workshop plan, that is being sprayed offsite now in a real booth as it's simply too cold weather all year round here to not have a booth and now I'm building a lot more than in the past it's simply not practical to wait a couple weeks for a warm day. Sanding etc done here. I have bought a heap of cheap $1.00 doonas from an op shop for transport (they call them dog blankets) so I don't scratch up the sanded or painted bodies moving them to and fro. I do have space for a dedicated booth to be built out back, just not in this version of the budget, as this one is already looking to easily go over the 100k as a few more things have blown out. I've got the explosion proof fans for the booth but that's about it. My objective at the moment is just to get in there and will add things over time, like internal cladding, floating ceiling etc.

Unlike yours I'm also not having an office or lunchroom or showroom in this shed either. As this is built about seventy something meters from my house there is no need for a lunch room and office wasting workshop space as I have them in the house, which is a double story where nearly the entire second story is dedicated to my guitar stuff where I can take customers and so forth. I have another three car shed on this property so it will house all my domestic crap, the large shed is pure workshop.

Another thing that really annoyed me in the old one was if I brought in a truck with firewood or a ute load of "tonewood", I'd have to park it outside and carry it to its destination inside the shed as there was no space to drive in, in the new shed I've allowed a path so I can reverse into my pallet rack area and unload without double handing. Same with the firewood. I don't own a forklift, I have to hire one to move the bigger machinery, however I do now own a tractor with a carry all (and can fit forks down the track), so it also needs to be able to move around in there which the same path can be used for. I'm finding it very handy already and the shed isn't even up yet.

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Re: Some news + designing a dream workshop?

Post by routout » Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:58 pm

Looking great ,I wish I had more room after I fill up this one when I put my 6x6 meter extension on I made sure I separated it clean area is a nice thing to have . :D
John ,of way too many things to do.

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Re: Some news + designing a dream workshop?

Post by kiwigeo » Sun Sep 18, 2016 2:19 pm

Allan,

How are you handing roof insulation? I ask because my garage has colourbond slapped on and no foil insulation or anything else. In the winter I sometimes get moisture condensing on the inside of the colourbond and it drips onto the floor.
Martin

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Re: Some news + designing a dream workshop?

Post by demonx » Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:17 pm

kiwigeo wrote:Allan,

How are you handing roof insulation? I ask because my garage has colourbond slapped on and no foil insulation or anything else. In the winter I sometimes get moisture condensing on the inside of the colourbond and it drips onto the floor.
When I built my last shed I was told that a too shallow roof pitch can do that. The pitch on this roof is less than my old one but it shouldn't be a problem. It never was in my old shed either which was 15degree. I think the new one is 12. Can't remember.

The sizilation is a bit thinner than I described in my earlier post (I looked at it this arvo and it's not quite as I remembered) It is however a lot thicker than the stuff you see in a house roof, it is the same foil, however is has what would be easiest described as a bubble wrap type center and then another layer of foil to close the sandwich. That will be layed over wire under the roof and also in all the walls.

If I find it's not quite as effective as I'm hoping I can string up a floating ceiling in a couple of the rooms and put batts over that.

Ormsby Guitars

Re: Some news + designing a dream workshop?

Post by Ormsby Guitars » Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:10 pm

GregL wrote:Hi Perry,

You said "Bunnings have 33mm round edge, 1800mm long bench sections on sale at the moment. We're $35 each, currently $7 each." - do you know what Bunnings calls them? I had a quick look and can't find those panels on special - I could do with another bench! (My local Bunnings is Lismore, northeastern NSW)

Thanks,
GregL.
I can't find them on the bunnings site, or laminex. They did say it was s new product that didn't sell so they were discounting to clear stock. I'll get a photo of any code numbers.

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Re: Some news + designing a dream workshop?

Post by demonx » Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:54 pm

Monday progress.

The guys asking about the walls can see in this pic the sizilation is now going in.
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Re: Some news + designing a dream workshop?

Post by demonx » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:26 am

This is what's being used for the walls and roof. Apparently it's 11mm
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Re: Some news + designing a dream workshop?

Post by demonx » Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:30 pm

Tuesday progress:
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Re: Some news + designing a dream workshop?

Post by demonx » Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:27 pm

Today's progress:
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Re: Some news + designing a dream workshop?

Post by demonx » Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:19 pm

Thursday update:

Roof is finished, all outside flashing etc is done, rollers are done, motor on the main roller etc, some windows are in and the PA door holes are cut.

This pic is looking into my workroom through the doorway of the main "dirty" room. The door you see off to the right leads to the CNC room and the door to the rear leads to the electrical/setup room.


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Re: Some news + designing a dream workshop?

Post by kiwigeo » Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:26 pm

Looking good....
Martin

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Re: Some news + designing a dream workshop?

Post by demonx » Fri Sep 23, 2016 6:14 pm

Finally, GOT THE KEYS!

So that's one major step ticked off, now to get the electrician in for lighting and power, security system installed, new benches made, landscaping finished so it redirects water and doesn't flood, stormwater/guttering into a water tank, the list of jobs just goes on and on.

Feeling broke. Yep, just checked bank, very broke!
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Re: Some news + designing a dream workshop?

Post by johnparchem » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:04 am

It seemed to go together in very little time. It looks like a really good space.

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Re: Some news + designing a dream workshop?

Post by seeaxe » Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:13 am

Looks like man-cave Nirvana to me!
Richard

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Re: Some news + designing a dream workshop?

Post by demonx » Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:40 pm

No picture updates today, however I've spent the last two days moving truck load after truckload of machines and timber and benches and all the other crap that lives in a shed from my old workshop to the new.

Feeling absolutely knackered right now, tomorrow I start again moving things from another shed I've got a heap of things in on this property and I need to arrange a forklift to move the CNC and some other things too big for my tractor. I've attached a "carry all" to my tractor so I can strap smaller machines like bandsaws or whatever to the back and move them around.

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