No Frets No Worries

Talk about musical instrument construction, setup and repair.

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kiwigeo
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No Frets No Worries

Post by kiwigeo » Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:30 am

After months of burying myself on the ins and outs of intonation of fretted instruments a thought has occurred to me. If I asked a violin player to fret a particular note and then measured the frequency of same....how accurate would the note be?? Would it be as accurate as that created on a fully compensated guitar?

Food for thought....
Martin

scripsit
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Re: No Frets No Worries

Post by scripsit » Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:13 am

From my considerable experience as a family observer of string playing at school and tertiary level, and occasional attendance at professional performances (string quartets and the like) I'd say 'It depends'.

There is an old joke 'Q: how can you tell if a violin player is out of tune? A: their bow is moving.'

Kym

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Re: No Frets No Worries

Post by scripsit » Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:36 pm

To be serious, it seems that intonation issues have always plagued string players, too.

http://www.hasseborup.com/ahistoryofint ... final1.pdf

I remember reading somewhere that, in practical terms, the expectation that string players would hit a note immediately (no matter what system of intonation they were striving for) is a relatively modern concern. Recordings of early twentieth century orchestras often feature audible 'scooping' up to the note, possibly because the orchestra players were not permanent groupings, but hired in for specific performances.

Vibrato can come to the rescue. It works for blues guitar players, especially slide players.

Kym

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Steve.Toscano
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Re: No Frets No Worries

Post by Steve.Toscano » Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:00 pm

I once did a wiring repair on a cello with a piezo. At the time i didnt have an amp in the workshop, when the owner came in to pick it up i pluged it into my chromatic pedal tuner so he could see a signal was getting through. (I had previously tested the cello through my 100w peavey stack, which was fun to say the least) :D
The owner played some notes and i couldnt help but notice they were spot on. I made comment to him at the time, his response was thats what you get for playing an instrument for 25yrs.

On this topic, when i used to play in a punk band after about 2yrs of 2-3 gigs a week plus practise, recording etc. i found that i was no longer feeling or listening for the fretted note and could instead place my fingers smack bang ontop of the frets just on memory - could never see the fretboard due to the blinding stage lights, not perfect intonation BUT i still knew exactly where any fret was on my main guitar. I guess this is simular for players of fretless string instruments. They just know where the note is.

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Re: No Frets No Worries

Post by scripsit » Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:41 pm

Some of it is being able to hear when you are out, as well as reproduce the muscle memory.

On this test I can get to within 5 cents without error. 2 cents not at all, it just becomes guesswork:
http://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_pitch.php?cent=2

When I played electric guitar in bands, I found that the volume over the course of the evening interfered with the ability to tune. I guess it was straight material fatigue in the ear drums. We used to use those old analogue tuners with needle dials, and without them I would have always tuned sharp by the last set of the night.

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