wood id?

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blackalex1952
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wood id?

Post by blackalex1952 » Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:19 pm

I have some wood in my stash that I used to think was Queensland Maple. I have never used Qld Maple so lacking experience, but things don't quite add up when I have compared it to the online wood data base that I usually use, and the photos that are on that data base. I would like to find an Australian timber database that gives the kind of info a luthier needs.
The sample in the pix I am posting here is 100mm wide on the quarter sawn photo and 93mm on the backsawn photo. So those measurements put the grain width in the pix in perspective. I'm pretty sure that it is an Aussie species, I do remember that I purchased it from Matthews Timbers years ago. Apart from that, all I can say is that my memory is so bad I can't remember when it was any good!
P1030153.JPG
Back sawn
Growth rings quite fine and tight. The end grain shot has a little burning from the blunt drop saw blade on the bottom right of the pic so take that into account please.
The timber is dense like a like a true Maple, and is heavier than the mahogany that I have here. ( I have some Fijian. I also have some mahogany that I salvaged from a State Savings Bank of Victoria interior, now CBA, that was refurbished in the late 1960's. Some may remember the mahogany counters of the old SSB branches. I guess Mahogany SSB interiors from the 1960's were built at least in the 1950's or earlier. So not sure what kind of mahogany, but it is quite dense, but probably not Cuban.)
The timber has quite a pink colour and exhibits an interesting figure on the flat sawn surface, and medullary rays on the quarter. I have probably had it since the 1970's and it is quite stable. I think it will make nice necks. The length of the piece I have is 1.5m long and has a lovely ring and sustain to it.
I did think it could have been Queensland Satin Sycamor but not so sure now. I think the flat sawn surface and the pinkish colour is a major clue as to it's identity.
Any ideas?
P1030151.JPG
Mystery Wood Quarter sawn
I am also looking for data on some Ottways Satin Box that I have (b&s sets), I have heard that it can split easily. I would also like any tips on working and bending it from those who have used it and any other comments on its acoustic properties.It is certainly one of my treasures set aside for a special build. I regularly handle the pieces on a tactile level and listen to the tap tones.
The tangetial/radial movement data for timbers is one of the things that is important to me for luthierie purposes.
I have also posted another photo of a dense timber I have (the mystery wood). I don't where it came from. It is hard and weighty like Blue Gum and on the quarter it has some character that comes from the "fiddlebacky" effect (l can't think of the correct term). I'm referring to the way the grain catches the light as end grain runout goes in different directions the same way fiddleback does....sorry about the vague description. The flat sawn surface is plain, and exhibits some checking near the sapwood side which may be honeycombing from the way it was dried. End grain growth rings are tight. Thanks in advance for comments. ps. with my computer and internet connection, posting pics in the right order is tricky!
Cheers! Ross
Attachments
P1030160r.JPG
End grain
P1030157.JPG
Back sawn
P1030156.JPG
Quarter sawn
P1030147.JPG
Quarter sawn
"Everything I say on the topic is based solely upon inexperience and assumption!"

routout
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Re: wood id?

Post by routout » Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:33 pm

Don't they call that QLD Rose wood I had a little of it once.
John ,of way too many things to do.

Gung
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Re: wood id?

Post by Gung » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:50 pm

Does it smell like caramel when you sand it? The grain looks similar to some coachwood i've come across.
Peter

Fisherman
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Re: wood id?

Post by Fisherman » Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:56 pm

Looks like QLD maple to me

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kiwigeo
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Re: wood id?

Post by kiwigeo » Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:23 pm

Fisherman wrote:Looks like QLD maple to me
Ditto...
Martin

curly
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Re: wood id?

Post by curly » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:29 am

I'd be pretty certain that it's Coachwood . Ceropetalum apetalum . The giveaway is a planed / fresh dressed / cut surface will smell sort of like caramel . It's a lovely timber . I'm a bit on the fly , off to harvest some awesome Blackwood , so haven't actually read the post ! Hopefully didn't miss anything there .
Pete

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Allen
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Re: wood id?

Post by Allen » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:30 am

We've got stacks of Qld. Maple at the Cairns Woodworkers Guild, and that looks like it to me.
Allen R. McFarlen
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curly
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Re: wood id?

Post by curly » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:03 am

The first photo of a flat sawn face is pretty distinctive , the eccentric parenchyma Bands that give a false appearance of fine growth rings are what I'm basing the coachwood identification upon .
Pete

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Steve.Toscano
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Re: wood id?

Post by Steve.Toscano » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:48 pm

2nd pic looks like bog standard qld maple

blackalex1952
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Re: wood id?

Post by blackalex1952 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:44 am

2nd pic looks like bog standard qld maple
The second pic is the mystery wood...if that's the photo you are referring to. The mystery wood is quite havy and the closest I have seen to it is Aussie Blue Gum.
As to the other timber, I'm certain it isn't cerepelatum apelatum, coachwood, as it doesn't have a smell when planed and sanded, and is heavier than coachwood going by the wood database dry weight.The figure in it has me wondering, and the colour isn't quite Blue Gum.
As to the other timber- I measured the large piece I have here and calculated the volume then worked out the weight. It is the same dry weight as Qld Maple. The pinky colour is probably just a variation of species. The back sawn figure is what has me wondering...but I'm beginning to conclude that it is in fact the maple. Thanks for everyone's input! I am still wondering if someone can put me on to a wood database that has most Aussie timbers on it. The only websites I have found lean more to the building, construction, manufacturing and commercial cabinet making industries. Things like dry weight, radial and tangential shrinkage, Janka hardness and suitability for luthier applications are not seen as so important here it seems. Also rare species not covered. Also not many good photos of the timber itself. The Wood Database is great but not complete as to species.
I still haven't found any information re the Ottways Satin...interested to know what trees like this (and others) look like and where else they grow. I did find a picture of a Bonsai Coachwood! -cheers! Ross
"Everything I say on the topic is based solely upon inexperience and assumption!"

Bruce McC
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Re: wood id?

Post by Bruce McC » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:52 pm

".....I am still wondering if someone can put me on to a wood database that has most Aussie timbers on it."

Whilst they are not online data bases Wood in Australia by Keith R Bootle and Australian Rainforest Woods by Morris Lake
are two good references.
Bruce Mc.

curly
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Re: wood id?

Post by curly » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:42 pm

I don't know of any local source that approximates the scope of the wood database .
There are plenty of botanical guides that will give feature descriptions , distribution and often photos or botanical illustrations of local trees . They tend to work by area , either broad or local , or by family or ecotype .
For satin box - phebalium squameum try 'trees of south east Australia 'by costermans or 'rainforest trees of mainland south east Australia ' by floyd . What is generally Missing from the botanical guides is timber specific info , you need other guides for that . Floyd does have a basic timber description but not technical data .
One broad overview that offers a little more is forest trees of Australia , then there are any amount of others , some already mentioned , many out of print .
Australian timbers volume 1 and 2 are great though at least volume 2 , which is awesome for arid zone timbers is out of print . The very best technical data come out of the csiro as publications like ' mechanical properties of 174 Australian timbers ' by bolza and kloot.
As to the wood Id question my best recommendation is to send a sample to Gary hopewell at the Queensland DPI. I'd be happy to do an end grain analysis from the csiro hardwood atlas or against my own positively identified samples if you want to post me a small sample .
Pete

blackalex1952
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Re: wood id?

Post by blackalex1952 » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:34 pm

Thanks Bruce and Pete. I'm hoping some luthiers who have used Satin Box will chime in re how they have found it to work with, it's bending properties and how it moves. Also how it takes glue and any other characteristics. Merry Christmas in your workshops guys! -Ross
"Everything I say on the topic is based solely upon inexperience and assumption!"

curly
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Re: wood id?

Post by curly » Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:01 am

I've got a fair quantity of satin box coming through at the moment . About a half cube of quarter sawn guitar cants come in just this week from the Otways .
It's very strong and long fibred , has a close , even texture and appears to be quite stable once dry though is pretty splitty in drying . The tap tone is great . I haven't built instruments with it myself though have supplied timber into some beautiful guitars and recently violins . I use it for tool handles and such as its fantastically strong . I can't imagine that it would be overly troublesome in glueing beyond being reasonably dense ( 800kg a cube ) and close pored . Whilst it is very distinctively aromatic , it is not particularly oily or greasy . The aroma is obviously associated with a high concentration of some type of heartwood extractive as the timber is class1 durable . Attention to glueing , as for rosewoods would be prudent .
Over the next bit I'll be releasing some proper master grade fiddleback guitar sets . As a species it would seem to be more prone to fiddleback than Blackwood or Myrtle .
Floyd states the maximum dimension as 350mm diameter which would not be big enough to quarter saw guitar sets though I'm regularly getting trees 550 to 600 diameter through . One whopper just scouted is over 700 diameter for the first 2 metres before it bifurcates .
If the trees were bigger and more common I expect it would be a class tone wood . As a species it will always stay peripheral on account of lack of the resource availability .
Thanks
Pete

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