New member new build

Talk about musical instrument construction, setup and repair.

Moderators: kiwigeo, Jeremy D

User avatar
hillbillybass
Sassafras
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 3:58 pm
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

New member new build

Post by hillbillybass » Mon May 08, 2017 9:56 pm

Hi all. New member from Melbourne, Australia.

I'm Michael, a (former) school teacher and self taught double bass player who likes to build stuff. In the past I've made 7 string Lyre from blackwood, a Savart Fiddle from Blackwood and King Billy pine and a Stew Mac kit violin.

I finished up with teaching at the end of last year and now that I'm not "working" so to speak, I have the time to build my own double bass out of Australian timbers.

I'm planning to build a flatback bass with a detachable neck and a side access port.

The timbers I'm thinking of using are - Queensland Maple (neck), either Queensland Maple, Tasmanian Myrtle or Blackwood (sides and maybe back), and Australian cedar for the top and willow (corner blocks and end block).

Most of what I've done so far is preparation work, building clamps, slowly accumulating timber, reading and research, talking to other double bass builders, etc. I'm currently reading Peter Chandler's book and Harry Wake's book while waiting for plans to arrive in the post. I'm not in a hurry and I'm going to have heaps of questions as I go, but to begin with:

1) What timber should I use for the neck block if I want the bass to have a detachable neck? Is willow ok or should I think about using something else (e.g. Qld Maple, Mahogany).

2) Where is a good place in Australia to buy double bass sized timbers? In particular - when I can afford it - which timber suppliers might stock decent double bass sized quarter sawn pieces of Australian Red Cedar?

3) I'm thinking of making the flatback from birch plywood and a veneer of blackwood or myrtle (Pros: no cracking, less movement, more durable. Cons: tone). Has anyone tried this? How did it turn out?

Cheers and thanks in advance.

User avatar
kiwigeo
Admin
Posts: 10582
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:57 pm
Location: Adelaide, Sth Australia

Re: New member new build

Post by kiwigeo » Mon May 08, 2017 10:34 pm

Welcome to the forum Michael,

Matthew is our double bass expert....he's not a regular poster but hopefully he'll get to see your post eventually and respond.
Martin

User avatar
ozziebluesman
Blackwood
Posts: 1529
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:12 am
Location: Townsville
Contact:

Re: New member new build

Post by ozziebluesman » Tue May 09, 2017 5:49 pm

Welcome Michael,
Hope you get as much good info from this forum as I have.
Some pics of your build would be nice as you go.
Cheers
Alan
"Play to express, not to impress"

Alan Hamley

http://www.hamleyfineguitars.com/

User avatar
hillbillybass
Sassafras
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 3:58 pm
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Re: New member new build

Post by hillbillybass » Wed May 10, 2017 2:28 pm

Thanks Martin and Alan.

I also put a post on the Talkbass forum and Matthew has responded with some great advice.

I'll post photos as the build (slowly) progresses. On Friday I'm off on a road trip to a local (i.e. Victoria) sawmiller to check out some wood for the ribs and look at options for the top wood. Also hoping to pick up some willow from another source on the same trip.

Cheers.

Michael

simso
Blackwood
Posts: 1768
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:36 pm
Location: Perth WA

Re: New member new build

Post by simso » Thu May 11, 2017 11:47 am

Look forward to build photos, they are always good to have

Steve
Steve
Master of nothing,

Do your own repairs - http://www.mirwa.com.au/How_to_Series.html

User avatar
DarwinStrings
Blackwood
Posts: 1877
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:27 pm
Location: Darwin

Re: New member new build

Post by DarwinStrings » Thu May 11, 2017 9:43 pm

Hi Michael, quarter sawn Aussie red cedar can be a bit hard to find but not impossible. It is mostly back sawn as cabinet makers like that cathedral look and it is quite stable so works well cut that way. There is some small millers in northern NSW that sometimes just slab it up and so the middle cut can be quarter saw. Google and the phone might get you some.
Life is good when you are amongst the wood.
Jim Schofield

User avatar
hillbillybass
Sassafras
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 3:58 pm
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Re: New member new build

Post by hillbillybass » Mon May 15, 2017 10:30 pm

Thanks Jim, I'm still thinking about the top wood. Also need to save up a bit more money because on Friday I bought some Ottways Blackwood for the ribs from Curly Pete (thanks Pete) and some English Willow logs for blocks from a Cricket Willow farm, which I spent Saturday cutting up and waxing endgrain.

Plans have arrived this week ( :cl ), so I'm preparing a mold outline for the template. :D
IMG_2972.JPG
IMG_2973.JPG
IMG_2782.JPG
IMG_2787.JPG
IMG_2811.JPG
IMG_2812.JPG
IMG_2818.JPG
IMG_2822.JPG

User avatar
hillbillybass
Sassafras
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 3:58 pm
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Re: New member new build

Post by hillbillybass » Tue May 23, 2017 9:43 am

Still working out the plan for the mold this week. Hope to start cutting the template on the weekend.
Attachments
IMG_3144.JPG

User avatar
hillbillybass
Sassafras
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 3:58 pm
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Re: New member new build update - Double bass mold "finished."

Post by hillbillybass » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:35 pm

Been busy these past few weeks working on my first double bass mold. Anyway, give or take a few small adjustments, it is "finished."
Attachments
IMG_3331.jpg
IMG_3330.jpg
IMG_3326.JPG
IMG_3320.JPG
IMG_3313.JPG
Ta DAH!
IMG_3277.JPG
A bit of bush engineering here.
IMG_3267.JPG
Nerve-wracking cutting the back for the angle.
IMG_3257.JPG
I love my Japanese saws.
IMG_3228.JPG
Rough, but square(ish)
IMG_3211.JPG
IMG_3204.JPG
So far so good.
IMG_3187.JPG
IMG_3184.JPG
Still have all my fingers!

User avatar
kiwigeo
Admin
Posts: 10582
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:57 pm
Location: Adelaide, Sth Australia

Re: New member new build

Post by kiwigeo » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:11 pm

A bit like making a lute.....nearly as much work in the mold as in the actual instrument. Looking forward to watching this build.
Martin

User avatar
martintaylor
Blackwood
Posts: 288
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:17 am
Contact:

Re: New member new build

Post by martintaylor » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:22 am

Looks really interesting build. Pete McCurly of Curly Timbers may be able to guide you with timber choices. Also, Cedarworks in Grafton often get large slabs of Australian Cedar that are quarter sawn. Another species that may be available is Mackay Cedar (I've used it on an acoustic bass) and Boutique Timbers get it fairly regularly. Hope that helps.

routout
Blackwood
Posts: 289
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:34 am

Re: New member new build

Post by routout » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:18 am

Nice jigs :) Mathews Timber in the east not many specialty sellers in Melb ,looks like you have time on your hands so you don't have to be Rushen.
John ,of way too many things to do.

Kamusur
Blackwood
Posts: 754
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:08 pm

Re: New member new build

Post by Kamusur » Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:49 am

Michael, i'd just whack a neck on it now and string up the mold it looks good enough.

Steve

old_picker
Blackwood
Posts: 183
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:51 pm

Re: New member new build

Post by old_picker » Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:36 pm

Brittons timber south dandenong have a huge range of timber - not as easy going as mathews though where you can walk around and pull boards out of the racks. with brittons you tell em what you want and they pull the boards for you. WR Timbers in kilsyth sometimes have some interesting stuff.

User avatar
hillbillybass
Sassafras
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 3:58 pm
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Re: New member new build

Post by hillbillybass » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:33 pm

Wow! Thanks for the feedback and encouragement fellas, much appreciated. Tempting as it was to put a neck on it and string it up Steve, I already have a pretty nice old plywood bass. :D Thanks for the suggestions on timber suppliers everyone. Not as much choice here in Melbourne as there is in QLD, NSW or Tasmania, but I'm open to all suggestions and enjoying the journey and learning heaps.

I used to go to Australian Furniture Timbers in Port Melbourne before they closed down. Wish I'd bought up some of their King Billy Pine boards before they closed their doors.

I'm going to use Mountain Ash for the back of this bass, and blackwood (supplied by Curly Pete) for the ribs. I will probably use either Western Red Cedar for the top, or maybe even Monterey Cypress. I'm curious about Monterey Cypress as it is relatively easy to get in Victoria and has been used successfully in guitars.

Australian Red Cedar has proven pretty difficult to find in Melbourne, although I did find some back sawn furniture grade stuff that was too small. If I'm patient, some suitable boards just might turn up, if not for this build then for a future one.

Other woods I've been researching are Kalantis, Mackay Cedar, Monterey Cypress, Queensland Kauri, Celery top Pine, Hoop Pine, Huon Pine, King Billy Pine, California Redwood and Bunya. I'm enjoying improving my timber knowledge.

The main suppliers I've been working with so far are Curly Pete and Matthews Timbers. I know of Brittons in Dandenong South as I bought some blackwood there years ago, but haven't been there recently. A couple of other suppliers I've found recently are A Lewis and Co in Ormond, who are very helpful and stock Western Red Cedar and can get double bass sized boards. I've also been to Hughes Renovator's Paradise in Huntingdale who stock some interesting reclaimed timbers such as Redwood, Kauri pine, Baltic Pine and Tas Oak, etc.

The next move for me is to build a stack of clamps and a bending iron. I went to the tip shop in Wantirna South on Friday and picked up 3 metres of 45mm Tas Oak Dowel for $3 and a Tas Oak DAR board for $2, along with a piece of 50mm Copper Pipe for $5.

Cheers and thanks.

User avatar
hillbillybass
Sassafras
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 3:58 pm
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Re: New member new build - clamps and bending iron completed

Post by hillbillybass » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:36 pm

In the past few weeks I've been building clamps and a bending iron from bits and pieces found at the tip shop, steel rod from bunnings, wing nuts and washers from Ferntree Gully Bolts, and stuff I already had. I Bought 3 metres of 45mm dowel form the tip shop for $3 which made most of my clamps. Also a length of copper pipe ($5) and a Tasmanian Oak board ($2) for the bending iron.

The candle powered bending iron is a larger version of one I made a few years ago for bending violin ribs, and which worked brilliantly. I got the idea from a violin making friend of mine, Warren Nolan Fordham. It is probably pretty similar in concept to what the old Bresican makers like Gasparo da Salo and Giovanni Battista Rogeri used. Not counting screws, etc, that I already had, it cost $7 to build. :D
Attachments
IMG_3443.jpg
IMG_3453.jpg
IMG_3471.jpg
IMG_3504.jpg
IMG_3508.jpg
IMG_3511.jpg
IMG_3515.jpg
IMG_3522.jpg
IMG_3524.jpg
IMG_3525.jpg
IMG_3527.jpg
IMG_3534.jpg
IMG_3545.jpg
IMG_3550.jpg
IMG_3551.jpg

blackalex1952
Blackwood
Posts: 776
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:36 pm
Location: North East Victoria

Re: New member new build

Post by blackalex1952 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:09 pm

Mate! Ya got more jigs than an Irish songbook! You may have to up the candlepower to a four burner for thicker larger bass sides!
A better idea would be methylated spirit burners. I have some made with small bottles which have metal screwtops, soldered copper tubes to hold round wicks. The alcohol burns hotter than candles and leaves no carbon residue. My mother used to use them for heating brass wooden handled formers when making artificial silk flowers the traditional way. If you need something stronger still on the cheap, Chinese heating elements and a Chinese PID controller on eBay. I made my own bending iron with a wooden shape which was then used to sand cast aluminium. I drilled 10mm holes in it to install the ceramic elements. I have also made one with stainless steel tube, scrounged of course, and melted aluminium then poured it into the tube. !0mm holes and elements after that. I have even seen a similar thing with two soldering irons pushed into either end of the tube. The aluminuim conducts the heat. You could even try soldering irons and copper pipe. The old Spanish, Mexican and South American luthiers bent sides on a pot belly flue. The further up the flue the cooler the pipe, so the bending heat sweet spot can be found. I look forward to your posts. Make sure you tell us if the candle powered bender works effectively or not.
I have met both Warren (who probably has more tatts than you!) and his mentor Kevin Williams. Williams was an apprentice with a famous English violinmaker who lived in Sydney and used Australian timbers, one of the first to do so. His violas are legendary and fetch high prices.
Cheers!Ross
"Everything I say on the topic is based solely upon inexperience and assumption!"

User avatar
hillbillybass
Sassafras
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 3:58 pm
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Re: New member new build

Post by hillbillybass » Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:44 pm

Thanks for the idea on spirit lamps, Ross. I'll look into that.

It also got me thinking about the small spirit stoves that camping stores sell. :) Also, I have a huge electric soldering iron that once belonged to my wife's grandfather and came to me - as many things do - because no-one else wanted it. It could be a candidate for a future bending iron build!

Warren is very much a mentor of mine and I am lucky enough (thanks to my lovely wife) to own one of his magnificent violins. I have the 'f' holes of my violin tattooed on my forearms. Warren does indeed have more tatts than me - and we spent plenty of time talking about tattoos - although I was catching up on him until recently, when he got more done.

A few years ago, when I wasn't working and he was at WORCO in Thornbury, and after I'd completed my first violin build, Warren invited me to spend some time with him learning some of the better ways of doing things in violin making. He was very generous and lent me books, etc, and gave me a lot of ideas. He was helping me build a violin until I got a full time job back in education and had to put it aside. I'll get back to it once I complete this double bass!

Warren talked to me about Kevin and I'd love to meet him one day. It was Warren who inspired my interest in Australian timbers.

Cheers,

Michael

routout
Blackwood
Posts: 289
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:34 am

Re: New member new build

Post by routout » Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:00 am

I saw a piece on Warren the other day went to school with him ,all those years ago :lol: .I used a tube of stainless steel with a flame in the end to warm it up yell out if you need stuff,all good fun cheers John.
John ,of way too many things to do.

User avatar
hillbillybass
Sassafras
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 3:58 pm
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Re: New member new build

Post by hillbillybass » Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:50 pm

Thanks John, much appreciated.

The next step is to make a start on carving the neck and scroll. I have a board of Queensland Maple which I'm thinking of laminating together to get the right width. I might even put a 3mm veneer of blackwood through the middle. Should I use hide glue or Titebond for this? If hide glue, then I may wait until the weather (and the shed) is a bit warmer.

Cheers, Michael

User avatar
hillbillybass
Sassafras
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 3:58 pm
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Re: New member new build

Post by hillbillybass » Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:51 pm

Nothing like dressing a nice bit of redgum to get some morning exercise! šŸ˜€
IMG_4151.JPG
Attachments
IMG_4147.JPG

User avatar
hillbillybass
Sassafras
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 3:58 pm
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Re: New member new build

Post by hillbillybass » Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:40 pm

Had a bit of shed time this arvo. Cut a neck blank from the Queensland Maple boards I laminated with a redgum centre board during the week. The join turned out olay for a first effort. Room for improvement, but so far so good.
Attachments
IMG_4203.JPG
IMG_4199.JPG
IMG_4196.JPG
IMG_4195.JPG
IMG_4192.JPG
IMG_4168.JPG

User avatar
hillbillybass
Sassafras
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 3:58 pm
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Re: New member new build - carving the scroll

Post by hillbillybass » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:40 pm

Hi all, it's been a while since I posted as I've been busy running around after family and playing a few gigs on double bass. The double bass build continues slowly and steadily as time and finances permit. Today I've been out in the shed carving my first double bass scroll. So far so good. :D
Attachments
IMG_4414.JPG
IMG_4412.JPG
IMG_4411.JPG
FFA781A4-381A-4A5E-B24E-A8F539AB6E79.jpg
IMG_4408.JPG
IMG_4403.JPG
IMG_4393.JPG
IMG_4390.JPG
IMG_4389.JPG
IMG_4383.JPG
IMG_4355.JPG
IMG_4351.JPG
IMG_4349.JPG

johnparchem
Blackwood
Posts: 546
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:59 am
Location: Seattle
Contact:

Re: New member new build

Post by johnparchem » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:23 am

Thanks for the detailed documentation of your project.

User avatar
hillbillybass
Sassafras
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 3:58 pm
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Re: New member new build

Post by hillbillybass » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:24 pm

No worries John, I'm enjoying the journey and everything I'm learning along the way. Can't wait until I'm finally playing a bass I've built.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 97 guests