Air filtration

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Fisherman
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Air filtration

Post by Fisherman » Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:11 pm

Hi guys- i'm looking to get an air filtration unit for the workshop. Can you recommend a decent one that wont break the bank? I'm just working in a double garage workspace, but there is often plenty of dust after sanding... i can see airborne dust under the lights- hoping to fix that!

routout
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Re: Air filtration

Post by routout » Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:13 pm

I put my dust extractor outside also the large belt sander these were wooping up the dust I noticed the belt sander motor fan was pushing the dust up and away from the belt making the extractor hose less efficient .I have since put a shield on the motor to deflect it any how I digress (as usual ) filtration systems are pretty dear either way I just use a good respirator and extraction at the source you think you got it all until one day you wipe the top of something :D power costs are my enemy .
John ,of way too many things to do.

Fisherman
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Re: Air filtration

Post by Fisherman » Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:50 pm

My dust extractor seems to get most of the dust but not all of it, especially the really small stuff that just seems to hang in the air which I imagine is the dust that really should be kept out of the lungs. Also the extractor has accidentally turned into a dust blower a couple of times! Hand sanding and routing etc seem to create the most dust. Yes, will also look into a decent respirator.

Tonight I found a couple of filtration systems that might be ok on the Hare and Forbes website. The price seems reasonable and it says they filter to 1 micron. Amazon seems to have a few cheap options but the shipping is more than the machines themselves, making it still around $330-340 for the cheapest after conversion. So if I can locate a better quality one locally that would be preferable. I just don't know much about them so thought it a good idea to ask before purchasing the wrong one...maybe they all work the same? I'll give hafco a call and hear what they have to say..

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Allen
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Re: Air filtration

Post by Allen » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:52 am

Along with good dust extraction to every machine, I put one of those Big Fans from Bunnings mounted up on the wall at the opposite end of my workshop and as I always work with the double role up doors open, when I'm doing anything that makes dust, the fan blows it out the doors.

The Cairns Woodworkers Guild had one of the Jet dust filter thingies for several years, but we got rid of it as it wasn't up to the job. Couldn't recommend one of them.
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Fisherman
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Re: Air filtration

Post by Fisherman » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:03 am

Thanks Alan. I suspect slightly different working conditions with different neighbours here in Canberra to you in the tropics. I'm in suburbia built up to the neighbours and mostly work around 8pm to midnight... it's frosty cold and there would be complaints :)

Thanks for helping me to rule out the Jet machine, that is one of the ones that was on my shortlist

simso
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Re: Air filtration

Post by simso » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:24 pm

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/W326

I have 5 of these in my workshop, one in each of the dirty work rooms

Steve
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blackalex1952
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Re: Air filtration

Post by blackalex1952 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:33 pm

I have 5 of these in my workshop, one in each of the dirty work rooms
How often do you have to change the filters? Or can they be cleaned and re used? Two replacement filters available, around $85 each time.-Ross
"Everything I say on the topic is based solely upon inexperience and assumption!"

simso
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Re: Air filtration

Post by simso » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:52 pm

Never changed one yet.

I take them into my paint booth, turn on the extraction fan and whack them against the grate, all the dust gets sucked up and out of the building

Steve
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Kim Strode
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Re: Air filtration

Post by Kim Strode » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:15 pm

blackalex1952 wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:33 pm
I have 5 of these in my workshop, one in each of the dirty work rooms
How often do you have to change the filters? Or can they be cleaned and re used? Two replacement filters available, around $85 each time.-Ross
I have been looking at the one of these units lately and wondered how much noise it makes?
Kim Strode
Daylesford, Australia

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demonx
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Re: Air filtration

Post by demonx » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:18 pm

In my smaller cleaner workroom I have the same small unit as Simso and it seems to work ok, in my dirtier rooms I have units which are the old large carba tec ones that are now discontinued, I think because they were just too big, more commercia than residential, however if you can get one second hand I highly reccomend.

The low setting is about as powerful as the high setting on Simso's unit and they pull a lot more dust out of the room and they also have two types of filter in the one unit which remove much finer dust than the cheaper unit, they were however about three times the price.

Filters I've replaced once on the carvatec ones, they do get airhosed regularly. You can buy after market filters, look up air conditioning filters and use imperial measurements as they all seem fairly generic sizes and you can shop by filtration quality. I think the box of filters I bought worked out about ten bucks a filter and I bought a box of ten, so it's a decade or so's worth of filters for a fraction of the cost.

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demonx
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Re: Air filtration

Post by demonx » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:20 pm

Kim Strode wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:15 pm
blackalex1952 wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:33 pm
I have 5 of these in my workshop, one in each of the dirty work rooms
How often do you have to change the filters? Or can they be cleaned and re used? Two replacement filters available, around $85 each time.-Ross
I have been looking at the one of these units lately and wondered how much noise it makes?
They are noisy, however if you're using machinery you would be wearing ear muffs anyway.

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Kim Strode
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Re: Air filtration

Post by Kim Strode » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:20 pm

I've been looking at one of these units for my assembly workshop and was hoping for a quite sounding unit. Any one have experience.

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/R850
Kim Strode
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Fisherman
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Re: Air filtration

Post by Fisherman » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:00 pm

Hi Kim, for what it's worth I've narrowed my search to three options:

1. The machinery house one Steve mentions above (looks to be three times as powerful on specs and quieter than the other one they are offering, which you linked to). Cost is $385 + shipping. Most expensive but still cheaper than medical treatment later on!

2. The Wen 3410 - cheapest I have found - but again only a third as powerful the machinery house one re airflow. It is 10DB quieter and just $250 including shipping.

3. 8" Cyclone blower fan - Sydney tools has one for $250. For this option I'd run it under the garage door surrounded by a canvas drop sheet to create a vacuum and keep the heat in. It'd probably get rid of the dust but add to noise/dust to neighbours so not an option I'm keen on. But it would get rid of the dust..

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demonx
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Re: Air filtration

Post by demonx » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:12 am

Fisherman wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:00 pm
Hi Kim, for what it's worth I've narrowed my search to three options:

1..... Most expensive but still cheaper than medical treatment later on!
If it helps your decision, I had a visit about a fortnight ago from a recently retired local luthier who wanted to see my new setup. I won't name him however he is mostly known for jazz hollow bodies and electrics, the odd harp guitar and acoustics. He's a great bloke and a gentleman. I only see him once every couple of years but I always enjoy our talks. It is a forced retired due to health reasons (lungs) and not old age. He is a career woodworker and does not have air filtration in his workshop, instead just ran dust extraction and fans.

When he got here I asked if he wanted a quick tour of the property before we headed to the workshop, he said he'd love to but cannot. After the short walk from the car to the workshop I realised how much his breathing had deteriorated since the last time we had caught up. He looked like he'd just ran a double marathon. Every chair in the workshop was like an important goal to work towards as we moved from room to room as he caught his breath leaning on benches in between chairs. As much as I enjoyed his visit I felt sad watching as I could tell it was difficult for him.

He explained to me that he is in and out of hospital all the time and in town he requires a mobilily scooter just to move around. You have to wonder and I guess assume this could all have been avoided if he had air filtration?

When you know a person and see the after effects in person, saving a few hundred bucks on a unit doesn't even come into the equation.

Fisherman
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Re: Air filtration

Post by Fisherman » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:25 pm

Thanks Allen, and everyone for the helpful advice, I'm going to get the machinery house unit

simso
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Re: Air filtration

Post by simso » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:25 pm

Fisherman wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Thanks Allen, and everyone for the helpful advice, I'm going to get the machinery house unit
Good choice.
Steve
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Do your own repairs - http://www.mirwa.com.au/How_to_Series.html

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Kim Strode
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Re: Air filtration

Post by Kim Strode » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:59 am

After reading the reply's I'm also going to get the machinery house unit.
Kim Strode
Daylesford, Australia

Fisherman
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Re: Air filtration

Post by Fisherman » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:47 pm

Hi Kim - they have a $50 voucher if you havent bought from them before - sign up for the mates rates promo thing on their website

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demonx
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Re: Air filtration

Post by demonx » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:30 pm

Kim, I see you're in Daylesford, if you feel like a drive you're welcome to come see mine in person before you purchase. I actually bought mine from a local store (Des Elliot), as he can order them in. Might save you freight if they want too much.

Gazm
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Re: Air filtration

Post by Gazm » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:18 am

G'day fella's...Dust EXTRACTION is the KEY!!
A number of years back,my daily grind was contract boilermaking at a sugar mill, beside the mill is a co-generation plant & to the South east corner a 5 acre timber crush yard which fueled the generator boilers.
On a good S. east windy day the sawdust particles would whip our faces at most locations through out the mill & I would have a headache in approximately half an hour...no thanks to work place health & safety...this prompted me to research timber dust & control measures.
When I set up my backyard instrument workshop, I engaged Carbatec too fore fill some of my dirty toys requirements, 17" bandsaw, double drum sander, big boy sander, 12 table saw...with one 2 hp cloth bag dust extractor too service the lot...the headaches returned!! Mr Google & I became better friends.
Eventually I found Mr Bill Pentz.com in the U. S. of A.
Recently I purchased a 4 hp induction motor, goes like the clappers, 2nd hand 15" impeller fan housing, sheet metal cyclone, 6" PVC piping with fittings & 4 acoustic insulation panels too hopefully keep the neighbours quiet!
So Mr Fisherman & others, If you are serious about your long term health amongest the good woods, EXTRACT the dust from the sourced machinery first, which will eradicate the micro particle element from your workshop airways!! A 2 hp motor with a 4" PVC piping system does NOT efficiently extract the carcinogenic micro particles from the source.
She's LOUD & she can suck the sheet off the mattress...Ahh, No headaches!...my 2 bob's worth.

Gaz.

Fisherman
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Re: Air filtration

Post by Fisherman » Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:39 am

the air filtration unit arrived and does a great job. it is a bigger beastie than i expected but that is ok

simonm
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Re: Air filtration

Post by simonm » Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:45 pm

Gazm wrote:
Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:18 am
….
When I set up my backyard instrument workshop, I engaged Carbatec too fore fill some of my dirty toys requirements, 17" bandsaw, double drum sander, big boy sander, 12 table saw...with one 2 hp cloth bag dust extractor too service the lot...the headaches returned!! Mr Google & I became better friends.
Eventually I found Mr Bill Pentz.com in the U. S. of A.
Recently I purchased a 4 hp induction motor, goes like the clappers, 2nd hand 15" impeller fan housing, sheet metal cyclone, 6" PVC piping with fittings & 4 acoustic insulation panels too hopefully keep the neighbours quiet!
So Mr Fisherman & others, If you are serious about your long term health amongest the good woods, EXTRACT the dust from the sourced machinery first, which will eradicate the micro particle element from your workshop airways!! A 2 hp motor with a 4" PVC piping system does NOT efficiently extract the carcinogenic micro particles from the source.
She's LOUD & she can suck the sheet off the mattress...Ahh, No headaches!...my 2 bob's worth.

Gaz.
I am also on a quest for some dust control before I end up like Alan's friend.

On saturday I visited a friend a couple of hours drive away and saw what he had. Way bigger place than I will even have. The first thing you notice when you go in is that there is no dust. He has mainly big old professional 3-phase kit. His pipework is pretty crude - plastic drainage pipes of some kind. At least 6" - it may even be a bit bigger. He has a huge extractor unit with a big metal cyclone in front of it. This is in another room and certainly isn't noisy when in the workshop. He has a separate smaller system for hand tools and and also as a kind of central shop-vac for a workbench or two. He is about to build a downdraft sanding table. For sanding he uses compressed air and reckons it has better dust extraction - certainly the special sandpaper he is using has plenty of "holes" in it to help extract the dust.

I don't know how much time he put into it - lots for sure. But it works.

yakka
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Re: Air filtration

Post by yakka » Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:11 am

http://acousticguitarconstructionforum. ... f=3&t=1555

http://acousticguitarconstructionforum. ... f=3&t=2201
found this information on another site just wondering what yor thoughts are and in particular the information on placement of the units, as they discourage putting them on the ceiling.

chris

routout
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Re: Air filtration

Post by routout » Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:53 am

I have worked in pharmaceuticals for many years our rooms had the Intakes floor level two stage filters .Depends on the amount of particulate in the air you cant filter every thing ,if your missing a lot of dust with your extraction then the absolute filters will clog fast .
John ,of way too many things to do.

simso
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Re: Air filtration

Post by simso » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:53 am

yakka wrote:
Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:11 am
found this information on another site just wondering what yor thoughts are and in particular the information on placement of the units, as they discourage putting them on the ceiling.
Hi chris, I agree dust settles, but that doe's not help when you are breathing.

The trick is to get a flow of air happening within the workshop, the machine throws the excess dust into the air, the draw of the filtration unit will draw the dust laden air through the machine.

The goal is to draw it up and away from you.

If the filtration was at floor level, then the dust is being thrown into the air, and then the filtration unit is drawing that dust back past your lungs to the ground level.

When I am cleaning my workshop, I turn the dust extractors on, and hit the floors with an air hose and I am wearing a mask

Steve
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Do your own repairs - http://www.mirwa.com.au/How_to_Series.html

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