Torres Inspired Build

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ozziebluesman
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Torres Inspired Build

Post by ozziebluesman » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:59 am

G'day to you all,

I am researching and planning my next build a Antonio De Torres FE17 inspired Flamenco Guitar build.

I have a few questions and observations that I would like your thoughts on please?

Should I go traditional solera or bolt on neck?
Bolt on would allow a truss rod, I like that idea.
Also allow continuous solid linings for extra stability.
The original was had a very thin top, back and sides, 2 mm and less so to build a nice responsive guitar does it really need to be that thin.
I would like to use a 650 mm scale.
I'm leaning toward the traditional top bracing with a open second harmonic bar.
The FE17 is a 7/8ths guitar so a small plantilla.
No tornavoz like the original.
I would like to use King Billy Pine for the top, nice tight grain and Tiger Myrtle for the back and sides.
From my research it seems the guitar is very light in weight.

Cheers

Alan
"Play to express, not to impress"

Alan Hamley

http://www.hamleyfineguitars.com/

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Kim Strode
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Re: Torres Inspired Build

Post by Kim Strode » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:35 pm

There are some interesting comments from Alan Carruth and Trevor Gore in this post:
http://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/v ... 1&t=114651
Kim Strode
Daylesford, Australia

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Steve.Toscano
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Re: Torres Inspired Build

Post by Steve.Toscano » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:23 pm

ozziebluesman wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:59 am

Should I go traditional solera or bolt on neck?
Bolt on would allow a truss rod, I like that idea.
You can also do a truss rod with a spanish heel / solera construction method.
But if you are up to it, go the bolt on (or another easily adjustable neck join).
ozziebluesman wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:59 am
Also allow continuous solid linings for extra stability.
Flamenco's would normally have tantelones to allow the sides and back to come into play, as opposed to solid linings which bounce (for lack of a better word at the moment) the waves back into the top. Solid linnings on the back is ok.
ozziebluesman wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:59 am
The original was had a very thin top, back and sides, 2 mm and less so to build a nice responsive guitar does it really need to be that thin.
Sides and back: 2mm should be fine.
I'm not familiar with your bracing design - assuming 5 fans??
For what its worth: I do my flamenco's with 5 fans widely spaced, and a ~2.35mm spruce top. Top is 350mm across the lower bout. You mentioned a smaller plantilla - in which case you could go thinner on the top - depending on material.
ozziebluesman wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:59 am
I would like to use King Billy Pine for the top, nice tight grain and Tiger Myrtle for the back and sides.
Unless you are familiar with measuring the woods properties like in "the books" I suggest you may be better off sticking to a more conventional top material eg spruce or cedar.
King billy can vary soo much in stiffness. I have KBP tops here that by feel are are much more stiffer then my top grade spruce soundboards, and others that resemble soggy cardboard. Both examples are perfectly quartered and tight grained.
Tiger myrtle is quite heavy, if going for a more traditional flamenco sound i suggest looking for something lighter.
ozziebluesman wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:59 am
From my research it seems the guitar is very light in weight.
Yes, they are. And this is important for a quick attack and low sustain. Just measured one f my flamenco builds that i have here, it is 1.16kgs. With tuners and strings.
As a comparison this: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=7870&sid=f72120fd5 ... 3d34a39f89 , Myrtle classical is 1.51kgs.
Spanish cedar neck, and a lighter fretboard (not ebony) helps get the weight down.

Hope that helps.

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ozziebluesman
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Re: Torres Inspired Build

Post by ozziebluesman » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:46 pm

G'day Kim I have been watching that thread on Delcamp. There is another thread on tension which is interesting too.
G'day Steve, thank you for your time answering my questions. I was going to contact you as I seen your post on Delcamp. Your guitar is a beautiful instrument. I have only joined recently and to be honest as a self taught guitar builder I have no experience with classical guitars. I do have nice stash and have all the spruce species in aaa examples. The King Billy set I have is as stiff as all my sets except the Red Spruce. It is however a little heavier than the spruce so I may change my top back and sides materials. The Tiger Myrtle set is not heavy IMO and nothing like the Indian, Honduran and Mexican Rosewood sets I have in the stash. I agree the tentalonies may be required to allow a quick decay. Again, I am no expert here but very interested in your comments. Thank you again for your input. The FE17 is a small plantilla only 375 mm approx at the lower bout, 207 mm at the waist and 240 mm at the upper bout. I do like that size and with a 650 mm scale the bridge should be on top of the lower bout dome.
What dome height did you use Steve?
Also did yo use an open second harmonic bar?
I was thinking of using the Luca Waldner plantilla using seven fan braces in the kite shape with a closed first harmonic bar and an open second bar.
Anyway, it has been an interesting research and the Ramonillos book about Torres life is a great read although the building info is a bit all over the place. I think the thing to remember here is Torres was experimenting with every build so not may where the same dimensions.
Cheers
Alan
"Play to express, not to impress"

Alan Hamley

http://www.hamleyfineguitars.com/

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Steve.Toscano
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Re: Torres Inspired Build

Post by Steve.Toscano » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:10 pm

Hi Alan, i'll chop up your post again to answer what i can...
ozziebluesman wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:46 pm
What dome height did you use Steve?
for the soundboard? I made my solera and just carved away the bridge area until i thought it was about right 8) , no science behind that aspect for me.
When i lay a straight edge across it the dome is 2.5mm in the middle. No idea what it is as a radius, but i believe its slightly tighter then more conventional designs. I've made enough builds on it now to know bridge and fretboard heights to work with the dome.
My solera is flat all around the edges, starts to dish about 20mm in from the plantilla.
ozziebluesman wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:46 pm
Also did yo use an open second harmonic bar?
I've only used an open transverse brace once and that was on a fleta build following the plans in Trevor/Gerards books.
ozziebluesman wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:46 pm
I think the thing to remember here is Torres was experimenting with every build so not may where the same dimensions.
Isn't that what every maker does?? :lol: :lol:

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