Help with a delaminating head needed.

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Andos
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Help with a delaminating head needed.

Post by Andos » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:36 pm

A mate gave me an old hofner archtop with a broken neck to repair. The head has also started to come apart. I tried to re-glue the delaminations by cleaning, clamping and hide glue with absolutely no success.
The only other way I can think of is to have another go with epoxy, but I have a bad feeling that is not such a good idea.
So I thought I'd run past the forum before I make a bad job worse!

Cheers
Ando

simso
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Re: Help with a delaminating head needed.

Post by simso » Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:41 pm

Have you got any photos showing the condition the headstock is in.

Steve
Steve
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Do your own repairs - http://www.mirwa.com.au/How_to_Series.html

Andos
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Re: Help with a delaminating head needed.

Post by Andos » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:17 am

I've tried to post a couple of pics but I get "error your file is invalid"
I'll see if I can pm them to you.

Andos
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Re: Help with a delaminating head needed.

Post by Andos » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:37 pm

Must be something wrong with my phone. These loaded from my wifes phone no problem.
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20171030_202812.jpg
20171030_202823.jpg

simso
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Re: Help with a delaminating head needed.

Post by simso » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:59 pm

As mentioned vee email, wet it, clamp it, then after it’s flat, glue it.

Steve
Steve
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Do your own repairs - http://www.mirwa.com.au/How_to_Series.html

Andos
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Re: Help with a delaminating head needed.

Post by Andos » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:17 pm

Cheers for that Steve.
It's sitting with a wet rag round it as we speak. 24hrs on the rags and them I'll try the clamps. I'll let you know how it goes.

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Re: Help with a delaminating head needed.

Post by Andos » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:07 pm

This is after 1 day wrapped in a wet rag.
It's going to get another day under the rag and I'll clamp again.
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20171031_161918.jpg

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Re: Help with a delaminating head needed.

Post by simso » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:14 pm

Looking better already
Steve
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Do your own repairs - http://www.mirwa.com.au/How_to_Series.html

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Trevor Gore
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Re: Help with a delaminating head needed.

Post by Trevor Gore » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:44 pm

Is that a celluloid facing on the headstock? Like this:

http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/attachme ... rch43a-jpg

If it is, the celluloid shrinking is what is causing the problem and wetting the headstock is unlikely to fix it. You'll have to release the facing to get the headstock flat. Looking at what it has done to the headstock implies it is pretty well stuck down. Steve will likely have a much better idea than me of how to release the facings.

simso
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Re: Help with a delaminating head needed.

Post by simso » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:37 pm

Trevor has a good point, I did not notice the photo of the headplate being particularly shiny, if it’s celluloid, you want to remove it first, do the headstock repair and then re-attach the face plate.

Removal is simply a clean thin knife or spatula, no heat, no alcohol, just work the line until it pops off, I have at times had to use thinners on a spatula to split the join to get started, but Yu have lifted edges so not necessary IMO, I really do not recommend thinners, it gets messy but sometimes one must do what one must do, persistence and blade will get you there.

Steve
Steve
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Do your own repairs - http://www.mirwa.com.au/How_to_Series.html

Andos
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Re: Help with a delaminating head needed.

Post by Andos » Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:58 pm

Yup Trevor that is a celluloid lamination. I was hoping to leave it on as I expected it to come off in 5 pieces. Following Steves instructions, it just peeled of easy as. Even came off in one!

The head is as flat as can be expected. It's sitting clamped in a cool dark corner to dry out before glueing. Thanks Steve

Trevor, the pic that you linked to is almost identical to the guitar I've been asked to bodge up. The only differance is the control panel - mine's rectangular. I showed to the guitars owner. He's been overcome by it's beauty and gone from
can you just make this playable again
to
that's beautiful, mine is going to look like that?
I've just landed a full reco! Lol Steve will be hearing the cries for advice echoing over the ditch!!
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20171101_151801.jpg
Flat again
20171101_152222.jpg
The celluloid - still in one piece!

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Trevor Gore
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Re: Help with a delaminating head needed.

Post by Trevor Gore » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:09 pm

Andos wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:58 pm
I've just landed a full reco!
Nice! Keep the pics coming as it progresses!

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Re: Help with a delaminating head needed.

Post by Andos » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:59 am

This is after 48 hrs drying between the clamps, 24 in the glue press and 10mins sanding. It came out of clamps within 1/4mm of flat.
The celluloid lamination is now a good 1mm undersize. I would never have considered it contracting over time.
Many thanks for sharing your tricks on the art of wizardry and luthiery!
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Andos
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Re: Help with a delaminating head needed.

Post by Andos » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:04 am

This project is in no hurry - partly due to a needed increase in skills and confidence and also due to getting any of the promised $$$ out of my mate. My time he can have for the experience I gain - but the parts don't get ordered until I have the readies!

The weekends project was to get the binding and frets on.
IMG_20181028_105031.jpg
The 13th and 14th frets I'll leave off until I know what to do with the hole in the middle of them. Any ideas??
A new fret board has been ruled out - unfortunately.

Waiting for the machines to arrive
IMG_20181028_105251.jpg

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kiwigeo
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Re: Help with a delaminating head needed.

Post by kiwigeo » Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:55 pm

The hole in the fretboard??? Um...turn it into a pick storage pocket? :mrgreen:

Seriously though....if you can find a bit of rosewood with a good grain match you could go in with a plug cutter and fit a patch/plug. Will be tricky making it totally invisible though. Maybe you could replace the whole section between the two bounding frets with a patch....the frets would help with blending the patch visually with the rest of the fretboard.

Doesn't look like covering it with an inlay is an option.

Thinking outside the square option...turn it into a scalloped fretboard?
Martin

simso
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Re: Help with a delaminating head needed.

Post by simso » Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:05 pm

Plug it.

Look for a piece of rosewood that has minimal grain lines, line any that exist up the best you can before cutting the plug, then once its installed and sanded take a small v chisel and lightly gouge the plug with any missing grain lines to match the fretboard, rub you hand into the gouges, it will darken then nicely

The human eye can always spot shapes it recognises, so a circle is hard to hide, alternatively gouge file away the whole area down 1mm and laminate over it, frets will hide the ends so it does not need to blend into surrounding neck areas

Steve
Steve
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Do your own repairs - http://www.mirwa.com.au/How_to_Series.html

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kiwigeo
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Re: Help with a delaminating head needed.

Post by kiwigeo » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:36 pm

Ask and The Master will answer! :mrgreen:

simso wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:05 pm
Plug it.

Look for a piece of rosewood that has minimal grain lines, line any that exist up the best you can before cutting the plug, then once its installed and sanded take a small v chisel and lightly gouge the plug with any missing grain lines to match the fretboard, rub you hand into the gouges, it will darken then nicely

The human eye can always spot shapes it recognises, so a circle is hard to hide, alternatively gouge file away the whole area down 1mm and laminate over it, frets will hide the ends so it does not need to blend into surrounding neck areas

Steve
Martin

simso
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Re: Help with a delaminating head needed.

Post by simso » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:41 pm

Nah, just the king of hiding my screw ups :)
Steve
Master of nothing,

Do your own repairs - http://www.mirwa.com.au/How_to_Series.html

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