Superglues in luthierie

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blackalex1952
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Superglues in luthierie

Post by blackalex1952 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:35 pm

Steve, aka Simso, is doing a great job with tutorials and info regarding his restoration work.
I have an idea here.
Superglue and uses that forum members have put it to.
Please contribute any methods you may find useful.
Superglues have varying viscosity and can be used with an accelerator. I often use a slow set superglue followed by an accelerator to set.
I use it for many tasks, drop filling finish repairs, fixing tear outs, fine crack repairs, some binding work, MOP inlays, rosettes, electronic repairs, hole plugging with a dowel and the glue-the list goes on.
One thing I do use it for is to stabilize veneers. As an example, I use 0.6mm Maple veneer under my headstock veneer and fretboard. I glue the veneer to the fretboard, then trim to the fretboard edges, gluing the fretboard to the neck after that. I used to find that the veneer, due to it's thin fragility and curly grain, would often tear when doing this with a sharp blade. I now prime the egdes of the veneer with high viscosity superglue. This helps keep the veneer stable during the cut and the high velocity penetrates well prior to applying the accelerator. Works great to stabilise end grain. I recently made a rosette with Gold MOP and Claro walnut. Scraping the MOP flush is problematic because the Claro is so soft compared to the pearl. I soak my Claro veneer in S Glue, works fine.
This trick can also be useful if having trouble with back strip inlays and rosettes.
When drop filling for finish repair I have found that it helps to make sure that the the drop, in this case superglue, has a similar hardness or is softer than the varnish that is being filled. This seems to help with scraping the drop flush.
-Ross
Attachments
IMG_4764.JPG
The black is ebonised pearwood, Gold MOP and superglue stabilised Claro Walnut.
"Everything I say on the topic is based solely upon inexperience and assumption!"

blackalex1952
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Re: Superglues in luthierie

Post by blackalex1952 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:46 pm

Having just read my post, I'll go slightly off topic...I sometimes trim and shape my MOP with one of those chain saw sharpening stones which fit in a Dremel tool. The other thing to remember when cutting thin material like pearl is the rule that there need to be at least three saw teeth within the material at all times, so the no of teeth per inch for the correct blade is directly proportional to the thickness of the material being cut.
-Ross
"Everything I say on the topic is based solely upon inexperience and assumption!"

routout
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Re: Superglues in luthierie

Post by routout » Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:23 pm

Someones gunna tell you cutting pear is dangerous so is wood dust ,Super glue is king add ebony dust and see the results :D used to buy Hot Stuff made in the US Wood-Smith near by sold it I put some mulger together in 95 and in all extremes it's still bonded so there you go ,activator is not necessary all the time.
John ,of way too many things to do.

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56nortondomy
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Re: Superglues in luthierie

Post by 56nortondomy » Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:05 pm

Probably most will know this, I use CA now with masking tape to hold templates ( eg. bridge routing template onto blank ) and veneers onto whatever I need to, I used to use double sided tape but the super glue masking tape is really strong and is easier and less messy to remove. I use it for much more as well it's great for fixing f&$k ups. I use Loctite 406 it's a really good CA. Wayne

simso
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Re: Superglues in luthierie

Post by simso » Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:33 pm

I use superglue daily, to glue the cuts on my hands, I stab myself and cut myself so many times a day, it’s ridiculous.

Steve
Steve
Master of nothing,

Do your own repairs - http://www.mirwa.com.au/How_to_Series.html

Dave M
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Re: Superglues in luthierie

Post by Dave M » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:46 am

56 I am interested in how you are using CA glue. Do you cover the two surfaces with masking tape then use the CA to glue these together?

I ask because some double sided tape does indeed leave a lot of residue for clean up so if there is a better way...
------------------
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Mark McLean
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Re: Superglues in luthierie

Post by Mark McLean » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:33 am

Yes Dave - there is a better way. The masking tape ands superglue trick that Wayne refers to will change your life, and you will never use double sided tape again.

You only need a strip of marking tape on each of the surfaces you want to stick together. It is not necessary to completely cover them. You then use CA glue to stick the strips of tape to each other. It is very strong for resisting lateral force. So you can stick a fingerboard blank down to your benchtop and go at it with a plane or sander or router and it will stay completely still, with no clamps to get in your way. Also great for attaching a routing template. When you want to separate them a palate knife slipped into the gap will take them apart.

It can be hard to describe things in writing. If a video would help take a look at this one from Ben Crowe at Crimson guitars in the UK. You don't need to look at Ben's exotically decorated head for the full 13 minutes - jump in at the 7.00 minute mark and you will quickly get the point.
[youtube]https://youtu.be/ub6PsY4cgwg[/youtube]

I will add mention of superglue and baking soda to patch up a nut slot that has been cut a bit too deep. And I am constantly using superglue and wood-dust to fill gaps.

Pat.Hawkins
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Re: Superglues in luthierie

Post by Pat.Hawkins » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:30 am

Sometimes the dust and glue trick results in a darker colour.
I'm considering collecting jars of dust to test on.

Does anyone have any tips for colour matching/filling?
Cheers

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kiwigeo
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Re: Superglues in luthierie

Post by kiwigeo » Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:27 pm

My stained glass style rosettes rely on superglue to hold them together..I wick the glue in between the pieces and also into the Coobah burl to give it a bit of rigidity and fill in any gaps.
IMG_1278.jpg
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56nortondomy
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Re: Superglues in luthierie

Post by 56nortondomy » Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:32 pm

Hi Dave, Mark has explained things pretty well, just do it like he says, a couple of strips of masking tape and a thin bead of CA down the centre and your good to go, also what I do sometimes to separate if the veneer is thin and likely to crack is get a pipette and drizzle some shellite ( lighter fluid ) onto the tape and it'll soften it and it'll come off easy. Wayne

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Allen
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Re: Superglues in luthierie

Post by Allen » Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:36 pm

You can use CA as a fast pore filler, sealer and clear fill. I do this always on my peg head veneers for the laser engraving of my logo.

Since I use a pearl ink to fill the logo on my headstock, it's important that the pores are filled so I don't end up with little white dots all around the logo. So I flood the area with some CA and spread it around with an old credit card and let dry. Sand smooth and check to see if it's all good. If not apply again.

Also some timbers (notably Rosewoods) will bleed color into the ink if it's not sealed afterwards as well. To seal the engraving prior to applying ink, it's just running some super thin glue over the area and then hitting it with some compressed air to blow it out of the voids. Dries in seconds, but has done it's job of isolating the timber from the ink.

Afterwards the ink has been applied and dried, the area is carefully scraped clean and thin CA is used to fill over the ink in the voids and left to dry hard overnight. Then once again scraped level.....and ready to glue to the headstock.
Allen R. McFarlen
https://www.brguitars.com
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Dave M
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Re: Superglues in luthierie

Post by Dave M » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:38 am

Thanks guys I shall give it a go.
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blackalex1952
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Re: Superglues in luthierie

Post by blackalex1952 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:26 pm

Mark wrote:
You only need a strip of marking tape on each of the surfaces you want to stick together. It is not necessary to completely cover them. You then use CA glue to stick the strips of tape to each other. It is very strong for resisting lateral force.
Personally, I like the sellotape double sided tape. The only good one I have found and I have used a few different types. It is by far the easiest to remove, is cheaper in the long run than burning through the superglue, not as toxic abnoxious and less accident prone, eg spillage, and I feel that it sticks just as well. Cleans off if left too long with Naptha ie Shellite.
ou can use CA as a fast pore filler, sealer and clear fill. I do this always on my peg head veneers for the laser engraving of my logo.

Allen wrote
Since I use a pearl ink to fill the logo on my headstock, it's important that the pores are filled so I don't end up with little white dots all around the logo.
I pore fill with plaster of paris and a little stain, sand flush then coat with shellac before laser engraving. Shellac is an insulator and doesn't burn easily if at all, with no superglue being lasered toxic fumes. Shellac was traditionally used for gluing the caps on electron valves and for all sorts of electrical insulation. Then I clean out the loose carbon from the image with a pin, more shellac to bond any loose carbon into the wood, then I have found I get the best results with Chemist Warehouse budget el cheapo nail polish, gold looks great, lots of colours available. The nail polish is applied a few times to build up layers then allowed a few days to harden up before sanding flush. I suspect that the nail polish is nitrocellulose, nitro goes straight over the top of it, if I ever have problems with a finish reacting with the nail polish, I coat with shellac first-the wonder almost anything will stick to it shellac!
The other thing I tried and had poor results from was a mica pearl filler, the kind used by gun engravers. Not as good and expensive as well.
"Everything I say on the topic is based solely upon inexperience and assumption!"

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