Finishing using Hard Shellac

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yakka
Myrtle
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Finishing using Hard Shellac

Post by yakka » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:37 am

this is first attempt at finishing guitars (pretty much anything). Using hard shellac (ubeaut) and the advanced method in the Gore/Gillet books. so far i think that is not to bad about six coats and waiting for it to harden for a few days the do some sanding.
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yakka
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Re: Finishing using Hard Shellac

Post by yakka » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:00 pm

the necks
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kiwigeo
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Re: Finishing using Hard Shellac

Post by kiwigeo » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:10 pm

Welcome to the world of french polishing.
You're using an acetone/meths mix? The Ubeaut hard shellac is ok but I've found the Shines product that Trevor uses a bit better. What if any pore fill method are you using?
I notice in one photo you've got one of those non slip rubber mats. Some of these mats retain some of the silicon based mould release agent on the mat and this can get onto a guitar if youre not careful. Once that happens there can be issues with finishing.
Martin

yakka
Myrtle
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Re: Finishing using Hard Shellac

Post by yakka » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:51 pm

I did not do any pore filling, have to maybe try that on the next lot of guitars, (i read some part of a thread here about exposure to to the epoxies), i have only added acetone 1/3 base mix and 2/3 acetone (that's the way i read it in the book, 19.6.1).
This an exciting part of the process the timber comes alive and starts looking like the final product.
thanks for the advice on the mat, i will have to get my yoga mat back into the workshop.
where is the shines product available from?
regards
chris

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kiwigeo
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Re: Finishing using Hard Shellac

Post by kiwigeo » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:58 pm

yakka wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:51 pm
Where is the shines product available from?
regards
chris
Robert Rae is the guy to talk to.....you'll find him very knowledgeable and very helpful. He can make a shellac mix to your specifications but just tell him you're after the same mix that Trevor Gore uses and he'll know what you're talking about. He's best contacted via his mobile phone. http://shines.com.au/
Martin

blackalex1952
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Re: Finishing using Hard Shellac

Post by blackalex1952 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:28 pm

I did not do any pore filling, have to maybe try that on the next lot of guitars, (i read some part of a thread here about exposure to to the epoxies)
I readily admit that I'm not the greatest finisher around. Here is what works for me and what has been not so good.
I first started with the nitrocellulose sanding sealer...well, it's ok. I did use it once to seal a wooden toilet seat that someone asked me to make. She ended up with a rash on her end!!! :oops:
I tried pumice and shellac---lots of sanding and rubbing.
Tried epoxy grain fill. Once again lots os sanding and rubbing. Toxic as well.
Lately I have decided that I like a plaster of paris fill. I wet a rag, scoop a small quantity of plaster on to the guitar, and use a spray gun with water to damp the plaster as I rub it across trhe grain so that it grabs the pores. Sanding soft plaster fill is easy. Then I dilute some dye into whatever thinners will work...I have a tendency to use metho...I can handle those fumes ok!
The dye is used on dark woods or very subtly on light woods to colour the plaster in the wood pores. Then I do a couple of coats of shellac, which the nitro seems quite compatible with, or just French polish. I have never used the plaster fill with an oil however.
There will, I hope, be some more experienced with this method who will chime in and correct me if necessary. I worked this out myself, and it seems to do the trick with minimum sanding and elbow grease to apply the plaster.
Cheers, Ross
"Everything I say on the topic is based solely upon inexperience and assumption!"

yakka
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Re: Finishing using Hard Shellac

Post by yakka » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:47 pm

thanks for the replies
regards
Chris

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kiwigeo
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Re: Finishing using Hard Shellac

Post by kiwigeo » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:18 pm

There are numerous materials that can be used for pore filling. I started with a shellac spit coat and then filling sessions with a pumice "pounce". It requires a bit of skill to get the pores filled without overloading the wood surface with pumice....after a while you can tell when there's a bit too much pumice by the sound the pounce makes as you work it over the wood. Pore filling with epoxy resins....you need to decide on whether your aim is to end up with a continuous smooth layer of epoxy or aim to just have epoxy filling the pores only. The trick with epoxy is to not have it too viscous so that the epoxy gets into the pores without too much working with the squeegee. I bump up the workshop temperature to achieve this and with Z-poxy finishing resins I'd sometimes thin out with meths. Thinning out is more difficult with West Systems and other epoxies. My method aims to fill the pores only so there's a fair bit of sanding involved. Of late I've gone back to a pumice pore filling method. Plaster of Paris, walling compound and a host of other materials can be used for pore filling but with alot of these materials sink back can be an issue. One thing I like about the pumice fill method is that the methos solvent used dissolves colour out of the wood which then colours up the pumice. This is a useful feature but you need to be careful you don't overwork with the pad as you can leach out too much of the wood colour and end up with light coloured patches. Pumice build inevitably occurs. I deal with it by trying to move the material with a pad fitted with a clean cover. If that doesn't work then I let the surface dry a bit and then work the pumice build up off with wet and dry lubricated with a bit of paraffin oil. Sometimes I'll actually add oil to the pad as I'm pore filling....the oil definitely helps reduce build up of pumice. Like everything else to do with French Polishing there is no one method...you develop your own method.
Martin

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