Hello everyone I am Pete

Talk about musical instrument construction, setup and repair.

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Petecane
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Hello everyone I am Pete

Post by Petecane » Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:38 pm

Hello fellow luthiers.
May I please introduce myself.
I tend to say a lot so please abide.
I am Pete, 68 years of youth, a Brit and am now living in Oz with my greater family and retired. ( I love it here )
In the past I have built a huge ornate folk harp, a Flamenco guitar, three violins and since being out here a number of electric this and that, an acoustic mountain Dulcimer and of late a Soprano Ukulele based on a CF Martin drawing .
Of late, the soprano Ukulele has demanded my interest.
It is IT that has captured me.
My first has gone to my beloved daughter who is over the moon with it.
I must say myself it sounds bright and crisp although with a cedar top! ( from Bunnings!)
You may laugh but the plank I chose was close grained to within 2mm between annular rings and they all hung at 90.
Anyway I am bursting with questions ,I know nothing but am excited to be amongst you all.
I will not be a threat to you.
I am retired, hopeless at business but love building musical instruments but would like to sell a few to enable tooling and wood for the next one.
Simple as.
My pet hates are people that say you need to build a thousand before you know what your at.
Sorry folks.....they are protecting their business.
And....!!!!... they put the dampers on guys who want to give it a try.
The other one is when I look at you tubes on how to fit a Ukuleke neck for example....
Then I am awash with sophisticated jigs and routers.
Come on......did Anton Torres, Antonio Stradivari and the like use routers?
No....it was mastered by hand.
Using a jig maybe but by hand.
I am interested to hear to what extent you guys go to to call it " hand made ".
Please guys...I am not knocking.
It' just that i like to do as much by hand as I can.
This includes cutting the rosette trough and the sound hole.
I have reservations for Dremel cutting.
I better shut up now.
Well there it is and now I must prepare for some form of agreement or to be banned from the forum for inciting a row!
Take care brothers
Pete

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56nortondomy
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Re: Hello everyone I am Pete

Post by 56nortondomy » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:39 pm

Hello Pete, as long as you're not a threat you're ok here :lol: Just build how you feel comfortable, I cut all my neck mortise and tenon joints by hand and sound holes by hand, other guys use jigs that's ok whatever works. Welcome to the forum and thanks for the great introduction.
Wayne

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kiwigeo
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Re: Hello everyone I am Pete

Post by kiwigeo » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:52 pm

"Come on......did Anton Torres, Antonio Stradivari and the like use routers?"

If routers had been around at the time I'm 100% certain they would have used them. Routers and jigs save time and when you're building to feed your family like Stradivari and Torres were...saving time would have been a no brainer.
Martin

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kiwigeo
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Re: Hello everyone I am Pete

Post by kiwigeo » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:35 pm

...and welcome to the forum Pete :)
Martin

Petecane
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Re: Hello everyone I am Pete

Post by Petecane » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:51 pm

56nortondomy wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:39 pm
Hello Pete, as long as you're not a threat you're ok here :lol: Just build how you feel comfortable, I cut all my neck mortise and tenon joints by hand and sound holes by hand, other guys use jigs that's ok whatever works. Welcome to the forum and thanks for the great introduction.
Wayne
Martin..
Well you have a point there but the issue is.....routers were not available and just look what they created by hand.
In our world....Masterpieces. ( and both survived to a good age )
Of course they must have used jigs and it is this old fashioned way that interests me.
I have seen many differring opinions as to the use of routers.
Some like them and others do not.
In a factory mode then yes.
But the cutting edges must only cut so many before tearout?
If one is in factory mode then a new cutter will by experiment cut X number of necks before replacement is due.
In hand made mode and less yeald expected then the blade on the cutting tool will be seen in an instant to be blunt and can quickly be re honed to razor sharp at no expense save the time of doing it?
I also believe that by doing it by hand one ultimately has more control.
One fatal slip with a fast rotating router and it' game up, start all over?
Only my thoughts.
Pete

Petecane
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Re: Hello everyone I am Pete

Post by Petecane » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:04 pm

56nortondomy wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:39 pm
Hello Pete, as long as you're not a threat you're ok here :lol: Just build how you feel comfortable, I cut all my neck mortise and tenon joints by hand and sound holes by hand, other guys use jigs that's ok whatever works. Welcome to the forum and thanks for the great introduction.
Wayne
Hi Wayne .
I amjust getting used to navigating around the forum.
I am pleased to hear that your practices are of the same ilk as mine.
I thought I was crazy cutting my first Uke sound hole by hand.
By hand I mean exactly that.
No rotating tool to cut it but a marked circle and then all knifed out.
I could not afford the expensive cutters and still cannot.
However I have just made two circle cutters from Gidgee wood.
One cuts the rosette inlay inner and outer lines and the other cuts the hole itself.
I can send pics if you like?
Are us lot secretive about what we do or do we help each other along?
I am a newbie to the forum so do not know watts wot or who's wot ha ha.
Doesn't matter anyway wot wot?
Pete

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kiwigeo
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Re: Hello everyone I am Pete

Post by kiwigeo » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:10 pm

A paddle pop stick and a scalpel blade do the job nicely...100% hand powered and you get to finish off a nice paddle pop before you start the job :)
Petecane wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:04 pm

No rotating tool to cut it but a marked circle and then all knifed out.
I could not afford the expensive cutters and still cannot.
Martin

Petecane
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Re: Hello everyone I am Pete

Post by Petecane » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:42 pm

Here is a little story I want to share with you.
When I was at boarding school I just started to learn the the classical guitar a la folk style. ( I was in love with Julie Felix)...alas too young!
One of the boys' mother had just died and left him her guitar.
He let me play it a lot. We were goodfriends and I tought him what I knew.
The first thing I noticed was it was as light as a feather and made of very light woods I later learnt were Spanish Cypress.
When held up against the sky I could see daylight through the ribs.
It had ebony peg tuners to it.
It's sound was immense.
It was like nothing I had ever experienced.
When I played it, it reverbed through my entire body which excited me.
I was only 15 but knew this guitar was special.
It smelt gorgeously of Cypress wood matured 33 years.
I only later learnt what that smell was.
I read the label inside.
It read....
Santos Hernandez
Madrid
1933.
It was only many years after playing it that I finally realised exactly what a masterpiece I was allowed to play.
I will never forget that.
That happened in 1966.
Thanks for listening.
BTW... I love flamenco!
Pete

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56nortondomy
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Re: Hello everyone I am Pete

Post by 56nortondomy » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:15 pm

Pretty sure most guys on the forum ( if not all )will share their knowledge, especially if you ask specific questions, the guys will chip in with info with just about anything luthier related. What Martin says about the paddle pop stick is how I've cut the majority of my sound holes.
Wayne

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Allen
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Re: Hello everyone I am Pete

Post by Allen » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:22 pm

I have an absolutely extrodinary plank of WRC that I found at Bunnings. Dead on the 1/4 for it's entire lenght with zero runout. Built serval instruments with it and lots more on the shelf.
Allen R. McFarlen
https://www.brguitars.com
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Cairns, Australia

Petecane
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Re: Hello everyone I am Pete

Post by Petecane » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:39 pm

Thinning down sound boards, backs and sides.
I find this process takes a long old time.
I start with a plane but am always worried it will tear, especially if the wood is flamed.
I then use a card type scraper and then sand paper on a block.
Does it take a long time with you as well?.
Are there any tips please?
Is a special type of plane used other than a well honed Stanley no4 used?
Thanks
Pete

Petecane
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Re: Hello everyone I am Pete

Post by Petecane » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:41 pm

Allen wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:22 pm
I have an absolutely extrodinary plank of WRC that I found at Bunnings. Dead on the 1/4 for it's entire lenght with zero runout. Built serval instruments with it and lots more on the shelf.
Yes...I was surprised too.
I think maybe I have the other half!
Pete

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kiwigeo
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Re: Hello everyone I am Pete

Post by kiwigeo » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:55 am

Petecane wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:39 pm
Thinning down sound boards, backs and sides.
I find this process takes a long old time.
I start with a plane but am always worried it will tear, especially if the wood is flamed.
I then use a card type scraper and then sand paper on a block.
Does it take a long time with you as well?.
Are there any tips please?
Is a special type of plane used other than a well honed Stanley no4 used?
Thanks
Pete
I do the bulk of my thinning on a drum sander but prior to acquiring that machine thinning was done with a No 4 plane. Initial thinning was done with a toothed blade in the plane, switching to a normal blade towards the end of the operation. Final thinning was done with a card scraper. For difficult grained woods I used an old scraper plane.
Martin

Petecane
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Re: Hello everyone I am Pete

Post by Petecane » Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:48 pm

Thanks Martin.
Thats about how I do it now but I do not have a scraper plane.
Drum sanders are expensive and I am toying with the idea of making one with adjustable wooden bed.
I have a spare working small band saw motor and maybe use a bit of drain pipe from Bunnings for the cylinder.
Has anbody here made one?
Pete

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56nortondomy
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Re: Hello everyone I am Pete

Post by 56nortondomy » Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:57 pm

I made my own Pete, works pretty well.
Wayne
http://woodgears.ca/sander/thickness.html
Hope the link works there's plans at the bottom.

Petecane
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Re: Hello everyone I am Pete

Post by Petecane » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:17 pm

That looks to be a good sturdy drum sander.
Thank you for your help.
Pete

blackalex1952
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Re: Hello everyone I am Pete

Post by blackalex1952 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:39 pm

My most indispensable hand tool is a pair of extra "chemist" shop reading/magnifying glasses perched on the end of my nose in front of my prescription glasses!!!!!! That and my sharpening stones, planes, knives and chisels. All of my silly learning curve mistakes have been made with vibrating teeth jarring rotating monsters, which require a lot of consciousness to use....I like my fingers as a player, and also my eyesight and hearing...did I mention earplugs? Did I mention the sharpening bill and postage for tungsten blades....vs hand sharpened high quality steel?
Cheers! Ross
ps: RULE: Keep yr hands BEHIND the blade!!!!
"Everything I say on the topic is based solely upon inexperience and assumption!"

Petecane
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Re: Hello everyone I am Pete

Post by Petecane » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:10 pm

Hey Ross.
I assume that you like to do it by hand as well then?
I do as well.
But I am a hippogit! Cos I just went out this afternoon and bought a Makita table saw.
The thought of sawing all those large planks by hand was just too much.
What a relief!
I could'nt really afford it but hell...life is too short.
An I want to build Ukes.
I am a close follower of Ken Timms.
My aim?
To turn out stuff like he does. ( I wish )
Funnilly enough my first Uke was a an early Martin copy.
I love the shape, pureness, tone and no bindings etc.
Just a sweet playing well made uke without fancy stuff.
Pete

blackalex1952
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Re: Hello everyone I am Pete

Post by blackalex1952 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:49 pm

Hey Pete. My early career as a performer and guitarist in the 1970's saw me doing three month seasons in a huge theatre restaurant in Melbourne. The previous occupant of my personal dressing room on one of those three month engagements where I worked every night, was Mick Conway of Captain Matchbox fame in those days. He left me to look after his liitle Martin uke which was made in the 1920's I think, or perhaps earlier than that...it had an awesome sound and I occasionally picked it up for a relaxing noodle prior to taking the stage.
As to breaking down wood, just find a luthier who can resaw accurately with minimum wastage on a large bandsaw set up for the process. ( if you do let us know ) I have such a friend but he has recently sold his business and retired, just when I had recently found a source of old high quality pre Cites and highly figured Brasillian Rosewood for a totally budget price..but still beyond my budget on the pension unfortunately....I could have or my retired friend could have, made a huge profit from this old table in terms of a now priceless and rare commodity. That's the way it goes sometimes!
Cheers Ross
"Everything I say on the topic is based solely upon inexperience and assumption!"

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