Cutting a Soprano Uke neck and body dovetail by hand.

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Petecane
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Cutting a Soprano Uke neck and body dovetail by hand.

Post by Petecane » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:30 pm

I do not have sophisticated routing jigs to do this task so I was wondering if any one has had good results cutting the dovetails by hand.
I have made my first Uke and cut the channels in both pieces by hand.
But it was not a dove tail, more a mortice and tennon?
I would like to dovetail in future as this locks the neck to the body.
I notice most dovetails have a roundy bit at the bottom which is clearly because routers are...er.....round!.
But can it be hand cut and square?
I would very much like to hear from any one who does it by handraulics.
Thanks
Pete

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Joseph Jones
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Re: Cutting a Soprano Uke neck and body dovetail by hand.

Post by Joseph Jones » Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:14 pm

Hi Pete,
Can’t give you advice on experience but I’m following some YouTube videos by “Blues creek guitars” for mine and I’ve found these very clear and straight forward. Worth a look.
Joseph
The stone is hard and the drop is small but a hole is made by the constant fall.

Petecane
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Re: Cutting a Soprano Uke neck and body dovetail by hand.

Post by Petecane » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:43 am

Thanks Joseph.
I have already watched a lengthy vid with the luthier fitting a neck.
The guy was very thorough but I did not see exactly how he cut the dovetails.
What is clear is that the dovetail in the top block was already cut out before glueing the block in.
If machining it out, this makes good sense as it must be more accurate to machine out a squared up block than to line up the guitar body in a huge jig and then rout it out.
I do not know as I am a novice.
If routing out is the only option then I must give it some thought.
But I would like to see how a luthier does it rather than a factory set up.
Pete

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lamanoditrento
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Re: Cutting a Soprano Uke neck and body dovetail by hand.

Post by lamanoditrento » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:21 am

Here's a vid of a handcut dovetail https://youtu.be/LbBYzcu2oqM
Trent

blackalex1952
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Re: Cutting a Soprano Uke neck and body dovetail by hand.

Post by blackalex1952 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:38 pm

The hand cutting is all in the marking up and the accuracy with hand tools, coupled with understanding the main mating surfaces which need to be finessed accurately using chalk and a sharp chisel, in my case along with the usual method of a strip of sandpaper. But take faith in the kind of methods used by the Franco Italian luthier, Bernabe Busato who made a Selmer style guitar which had an incredibly long scalle length of, I believe, 680mm, a huge bridge height of 20mm with an arched soundboard, and steel strings along with an extreme neck angle due to the "Busato Bombe" which refers to the arching in the soundboard which is required for both the bridge angle and the tonality of the build...thus a lot of rotational force at the neck to body join. Much more that a humble uke! Busato used strong Casein glue which he made himself and was an active builder from the 1930's through to the early 1950'e and simply glued his necks on without any morticing whatsoever. These neck to body joins are in most cases with surviving examples, STILL HOLDING ON!!! On top of that can be easily undone for neck resets if the rest of the guitar moves. But from my research they are all pretty good....after in some cases what is approaching a century of hard life! Fine examples of Busatos guitars are the next most valuable to authentic old Selmers and command prices in Europe and the USA of between $US10,000 and $US20,000
Cheers! Ross
"Everything I say on the topic is based solely upon inexperience and assumption!"

Petecane
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Re: Cutting a Soprano Uke neck and body dovetail by hand.

Post by Petecane » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:55 pm

Okay got that...
Many thanks.
So I cut the female first?
And then sculpt the male( neck ) to fit?
Pete

blackalex1952
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Re: Cutting a Soprano Uke neck and body dovetail by hand.

Post by blackalex1952 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:41 pm

So I cut the female first?
That's what most people, myself included, do.
The issues with a dovetail are a tight fit of the dovetail, achievable may ways including by hand, along with both neck angles ie. alignment to the centreline of the instrument and the neck (skew) and bridge break angle for the style of instrument in question. It's alll over You Tube and different methods are there in abundance.
ALWAYS WORK TO A CENTRELINE. when building symmetrical instruments like ukes.
Understand that the bottom of a dovetail joint is not really the issue, be it curved or straight. The issue is the two angles contained within the dovetail joint, understand the mating surfaces, then use chalk to finesse them by hand which most people end up doing with a finely honed chisel. If I mess this up I glue a couple of pieces of spruce to the dovetail sides because spruce is strong but soft to the re carving process and works for me as offcuts are readily available from the soundboard blanks. But with practice this has become a last resort in the case of my own impatience, usually! Any body else? It is a matter of patience and skill and sneaking up on the fit so as not to overshoot the mark, in which case the joint will not be strong and the tight fit can often occur below the line of the soundboard. This process has aims...to create a solid joint, to achieve the correct bridge height via neck angle and to deal with neck "skew" either side of the centre line. I have even made a few versions of a neck skew jig, but two straight edges will do the job if you have low financial resources and learn how it's done...once again, I recommend You Tube...it's all there somewhere, just watch a few of them and pick the clearest method which rocks your boat. Finessing the rest is done with tape to protect the body and 80 grit sand paper, but use an even number of strokes either side unless correcting skew. Patience and understanding all the mating surface is the key to a good fit. That's my experience!...Qualification:there are better builders on this site than myself, who have years of experience under their belts.
And yes, I did make a neck angle routing machine and templates, but still had to fine tune dovetails. So I really only use the female cutting part of it nowadays and personally have gravitated to marking up and accurately cutting the male part, ie the neck, with Japanese saws which I love to use...the traditional western saws give me a less certain result. For me, hand tools rule, but I've been using them for a long time, enjoy them, and am not a mass producer by any means. I love wood shavings and hate dust, earplugs and that out of touch with the sound of the tools and the timbers,I like the smells and the peace I feel when I use sharp finessed hand tools and well fettled hand planes with quality steel in the blades! Having said that, I do use Dremels and router tables, jigs, love my Makita trimmer and my favorite most indispensable power too, a little bandsaw. I find the Makita trimmer and a guide I made a quick, but sometimes scary tool for bindings...don't like the uncertainty but rarley cut my binding channels by hand... if I was building ukes and/or violins however....hmmmm...Cheers Ross
"Everything I say on the topic is based solely upon inexperience and assumption!"

blackalex1952
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Re: Cutting a Soprano Uke neck and body dovetail by hand.

Post by blackalex1952 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:30 pm

One more comment from me: I have found that with dovetail necks it works better and is more manageable to fit the neck prior to gluing the fingerboard on last. Just make sure that you have the right curvature in the first brace so as not to have to wedge or accurately taper the fingerboard where it glues to the soundboard
..ie, get the height at the bridge right, without the fingerboard glued on, then check the soundboard with a straight edge where the fingerboard overhangs the neck join.
Cheers Ross
"Everything I say on the topic is based solely upon inexperience and assumption!"

Petecane
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Re: Cutting a Soprano Uke neck and body dovetail by hand.

Post by Petecane » Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:33 pm

Thank you Ross for giving me your time.
Yes I have noted all what you have written and I understand it as well so thats a bonus!
Okay female first then trim the man to fit.
I very much share your working practices and favour hand work to machining for all the reasons you have given.
Having said that I have just yesterday bought a Makita table saw.
Its purpose is to cut all the Ukulele blanks to a size so they can be hand planed, scraped and then sometimes scrapped.
I go to a guy I call " Ol mate " to get my planks.
I have to take pot luck with him as sometimes he is not sure what he is selling. And sometimes I am not sure what I am buying so we make a good pair.
Often I come out on the good side coming home with huge planks that need machining down to sensible sizes.
Anyway...I digress.
I fully agree re Japanese saws and even their planes and chisels.
I only have one but drool at the mouth watching you tubes of the lucky ones with a fully equipt Japanese tooled up workshop.
It is great to see craftsmen at work using hand tools.
Somehow they never make a mess and their workshops are immaculate.
Mine is always dusty and a mess.
I understand that the Japanese craftsmen only have the tools on their bench that pertain to which task they are currently doing. Other than that, the bench is clear.
I am trying to discipline myself to work the same.
I am getting better but still need my ass kicked.
Thanks again Ross for your great help.
Pete

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