Classical Guitar Tuners Creaking and Binding Up

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ozziebluesman
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Classical Guitar Tuners Creaking and Binding Up

Post by ozziebluesman » Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:43 pm

Hi everyone,
I finished my first classical build recently. The machine heads are binding up and creaking and groaning. I used a Stewmac jig so the distance between posts should be spot on. Any suggestions greatly received.
Cheers
Alan
"Play to express, not to impress"

Alan Hamley

http://www.hamleyfineguitars.com/

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kiwigeo
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Re: Classical Guitar Tuners Creaking and Binding Up

Post by kiwigeo » Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:03 pm

Possibly rollers binding up in the holes. Try running a reamer through the roller holes...or a piece of dowel with sand paper wrapped around.
Martin

Dave M
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Re: Classical Guitar Tuners Creaking and Binding Up

Post by Dave M » Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:31 am

As Martin says it is often that the holes are a bit tight on the rollers, but also if the spacing between rollers isn't quite right (and there will be a tolerance on the manufacture of the tuners) then that will give you grief. A careful examination of the rollers as you insert them into the holes may show you what is happening. Try inserting a single roller in each hole.

As someone who discovered that his drilling guide was not accurate only recently I have spent some time with sandpaper wrapped round a wooden cylinder!

Cheers Dave
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ozziebluesman
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Re: Classical Guitar Tuners Creaking and Binding Up

Post by ozziebluesman » Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:43 am

Thanks Martin and Dave.
I fell into a false sense of security using the Stewmac jig thinking it would be perfect.
Not the case. When I installed them I thought the holes were a bit tight on the rollers.
Ok, easy fix just wondering if it was a common issue.
Thank you Gentleman for your time.
Cheers
Alan
"Play to express, not to impress"

Alan Hamley

http://www.hamleyfineguitars.com/

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Trevor Gore
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Re: Classical Guitar Tuners Creaking and Binding Up

Post by Trevor Gore » Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:51 pm

You can also lube the wood bearing surfaces with wax (candle, paste, bees, carnauba. All seem to work OK). Keep the hole clearances to a minimum, and make sure they're clear of finish, buffing compound etc..

Also, depending on your tuners, some (most) are 10mm diameter barrels and so need a 10.3mm hole (13/32"). However, some call for a 10mm hole and the barrels are ~ 9.8mm diameter. The difference matters.

blackalex1952
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Re: Classical Guitar Tuners Creaking and Binding Up

Post by blackalex1952 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:25 pm

Maybe a light application of graphite (without dirtying the timber) or some silicone spray might do the trick. I'd measure with calipers first. At least the creaking proves that the box amplifies sound successfully! :mrgreen: -Ross
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Re: Classical Guitar Tuners Creaking and Binding Up

Post by ozziebluesman » Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:18 am

Thanks Trevor and Ross for your advice.
They are the better quality Gotoh classical tuners and they did feel a tight fit when installed.
I have some beez wax so I will sand them till they are not such a tight fit with the dowel sandpaer method and then apply the beez wax because I have it in the workshop.
I will report back shortly.
Thank you everyone.
Cheers
Alan
"Play to express, not to impress"

Alan Hamley

http://www.hamleyfineguitars.com/

Fisherman
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Re: Classical Guitar Tuners Creaking and Binding Up

Post by Fisherman » Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:37 am

I use a bit of bar soap in the holes to lubricate. Seems to work...

blackalex1952
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Re: Classical Guitar Tuners Creaking and Binding Up

Post by blackalex1952 » Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:43 pm

I use a bit of bar soap in the holes to lubricate. Seems to work...
Soap absorbes water and causes wood to swell and metal to rust...Wax or silicone is much better. When I put screws into timber I wax them first-Ross
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Re: Classical Guitar Tuners Creaking and Binding Up

Post by jeffhigh » Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:27 am

Most builders avoid any products with silicones in the workshop due to the finishing and refinishing problems they can create

blackalex1952
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Re: Classical Guitar Tuners Creaking and Binding Up

Post by blackalex1952 » Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:23 pm

Most builders avoid any products with silicones in the workshop due to the finishing and refinishing problems they can create
Good point re the silicone, Jeff. I retract my comment! Sili of me!Cheers! Ross
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asgilbert
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Re: Classical Guitar Tuners Creaking and Binding Up

Post by asgilbert » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:10 pm

A wise old builder told me to drill 10.5mm. It allows for dimensional variations when drilling and any swelling that occurs. Drilled my first Classical with the 10.3 supplied by Stewmac and the it had some binding in the hole that I had to emery out. Drilled the second with 10.5 and ouala, no binding and no play in the assembly.

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Re: Classical Guitar Tuners Creaking and Binding Up

Post by Dave M » Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:30 am

Since I was fitting some tuners today I thought I might continue this a little.

When I was making furniture I used to make my own dowel jigs (a la Krenov) and making them in a suitable hardwood such as oak seemed good enough. Exact spacing was not important since one simply reversed the jig to drill the holes in the other piece, maintaining register.

Well I have done the same for a tuner hole drilling jig. Based on G&G though it is a fairly obvious way to go.

However! It is extremely difficult to drill at the correct spacing. The usual techniques of measuring, marking and centre punching just don't work. (I really tried!)

So this evening I finally did what I should have known was the only way to go. That is to have a fence on the drill platform that sets the distance from the clamping plate, AND carefully measured spacers to give the distance between centres. These two control surfaces mean that the dam'd drill simply can't wander.

I finally got the thing right. And by the way I happen to have a 10.3 mm bit which looks just right for the 10 mm rollers on my particular tuners.

Centering is achieved with packers between the clamping piece and the head.

PS there is a quite long discussion on this on the OLF with particular reference to the LMI and StewMac jigs.

Cheers Dave M
Attachments
Tuner holes 2 small.jpg
Tuner holes 3 small.jpg
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Dave

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kiwigeo
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Re: Classical Guitar Tuners Creaking and Binding Up

Post by kiwigeo » Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:26 pm

When drilling use a brad point bit...more chance of the bit staying centered when you start the hole.
Martin

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