Warning - Border Control have shifted the goal posts

Talk about musical instrument construction, setup and repair.

Moderators: kiwigeo, Jeremy D

Post Reply
User avatar
peter.coombe
Blackwood
Posts: 723
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:52 pm
Location: Bega, NSW
Contact:

Warning - Border Control have shifted the goal posts

Post by peter.coombe » Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:53 pm

I have been in this game for nearly 30 years, and over that time have sent probably over 100 mandolins and a couple of guitars and an octave mandolin to north America, Europe, UK etc etc. I have used Australia Post and DHL. Never has it been so damn difficult to export a musical instrument from Australia via Australia Post. I used to go to the local post office, fill out the customs dec, pay for the postage and insurance and it then went on it's way. No more. On 1/1/2019 the rules changed. Now if the item is worth more than $2000 we have to front up at a Border Force counter with 100 point ID with form B957 filled in and signed. Apparently the post office was no longer good enough to check 100 point ID, but they are good enough to issue Australian passports which make up 100 point ID. Ridiculous. I was pissed but managed to live with it. The nearest Border Force office is in Eden around 55km down the highway so I am lucky, pity the poor person trying to post from a country town far from the coast. For remote areas, Border Force will accept emailed 100 point ID, but I refuse to do that because it is way too risky. Couriers are utterly hopeless here on the far south coast of NSW. Every time when using a courier recently for lager packages, I have had to jump up and down and make a fuss to actually get the courier to turn up to pick the package up. The last time it took them 1 week to pickup and then it sat in their depot in Bega for another week so took 2 weeks just to leave Bega. So for smaller packages Aussie Post is far easier, and also a lot cheaper.

Ok, so on Monday I fronted up to Border Force in Eden with 100 point ID and handed over form B957 fill in and signed. No problems, same as last time which went smoothly, or so I thought. Late yesterday I received an email from head office Border Force asking for me to fill in form B319 and also send them 100 point ID and a commercial invoice via email. Commercial invoice nor form B957 has never been requested before. Commercial invoice is no problem, but form B319 requires 100 point ID to be attached. I refuse to send 100 point ID through email for 2 reasons. Firstly, email is not secure. You don't send credit card details through email because there is a risk of some scumbag fraudulently using your credit card. I have done it in the past and the end result was some scumbag in Dubai used my credit card to purchase an airline ticket. At least with a credit card the bank can usually get the money back from the merchant and you get it refunded. However, 100 point ID is far far worse than credit card info. It's enough to convince the bank the scumbag is you and give them access to your bank accounts. Identity theft can make your life a living hell. The likelihood of it happening is low, but the consequences can be very severe, which puts it into the high risk category. The second reason is that 100 point ID is confidential information so the security level is IN CONFIDENCE. Public service IT security guidelines state that IN CONFIDENCE information must not be transmitted over insecure pathways over public networks. Yet that is exactly what Border Force is asking me to do. Who bears the risk? Me of course. If something goes wrong they don't care and won't take any responsibility, it is all on me. I refuse to do it and have sent an email back refusing to do it. This problem IS NOT MY FAULT! They should not be doing it. They should have a secure portal with end to end encryption to handle 100 point ID. I suspect I will have to go back again to Eden and start again from scratch and present 100 point ID again and I am pissed about it, because I have already done that. Are they going to compensate me for wasted time and fuel for their screw up? No, I don't think so. Border Force are supposed to keep us safe, but they are doing anything but keeping my details safe.

So, next time you front up at a Border Control counter be prepared. End of rant.
Peter Coombe - mandolin, mandola and guitar maker
http://www.petercoombe.com

User avatar
peter.coombe
Blackwood
Posts: 723
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:52 pm
Location: Bega, NSW
Contact:

Re: Warning - Border Control have shifted the goal posts

Post by peter.coombe » Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:20 pm

Update. Success!! Woo hoo. I now have the magic number (EDN) from Border Force and can post the mandolin to the USA. After my quite shirty but polite (it did need to be modified from the original before sending) email to them they appear to have accepted that they screwed up. A rare success, but the message is still, be prepared for this changing of the goalposts.
Peter Coombe - mandolin, mandola and guitar maker
http://www.petercoombe.com

User avatar
kiwigeo
Admin
Posts: 10582
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:57 pm
Location: Adelaide, Sth Australia

Re: Warning - Border Control have shifted the goal posts

Post by kiwigeo » Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:32 pm

Persistence sometimes pays off. Good on ya Pete for sticking to your guns.
Martin

User avatar
Allen
Blackwood
Posts: 5252
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:39 pm
Location: Cairns, Australia
Contact:

Re: Warning - Border Control have shifted the goal posts

Post by Allen » Fri Jun 09, 2023 5:24 am

I'm on several forums with full time luthiers all over the world and see similar tales with them dealing with their bureaucracy becoming more over the top and onerous to navigate......and expensive in time and fees. Common consensus is that for pain free shipping experience keeping the declared value under the threshold makes life easier if you can live with the risk of under insuring.
Allen R. McFarlen
https://www.brguitars.com
Facebook
Cairns, Australia

User avatar
peter.coombe
Blackwood
Posts: 723
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:52 pm
Location: Bega, NSW
Contact:

Re: Warning - Border Control have shifted the goal posts

Post by peter.coombe » Fri Jun 09, 2023 10:08 am

I agree with you Allen, and have done what you suggested before, but in this case the mandolin was worth nearly double the threshold and I was not willing to take the risk. This is a particularly difficult shipment because not only is there the crap I have to deal with, but the customer has to deal with US shell inlay and Lacey Act paperwork, something he is thankfully willing to do with a bit of help from me. It should be easy to trade with other countries, but it ain't any more, even with free trade agreements in place. The big guys can employ people to deal with this shit, but we have to spend time and money which makes it more difficult to send anything worth a bit out of the country.
Peter Coombe - mandolin, mandola and guitar maker
http://www.petercoombe.com

User avatar
Steve.Toscano
Blackwood
Posts: 489
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:43 pm
Location: Port Stephens NSW

Re: Warning - Border Control have shifted the goal posts

Post by Steve.Toscano » Mon Jun 12, 2023 1:07 pm

Weird, i send overseas through pack and send (who then use DHL in most cases). Never had to jump through any hoops.
Last instrument was valued and insured at $9750 aud.

Not the cheapest, but the beauty is they package it all up - i just front up with guitar in a hiscox case they look after the rest, whole process takes under 10mins for me, they bubble wrap and then into a box.
They also insure on packaging not just on loss - which is a problem with using aus post who i believe will only insure on loss not on damage (for musical instruments), its deep down in the fine print.

I used to self insure, but swapped to trusting PnS' insurance.

Having to front up to a border force office seems way overkill. I suggest trying pack and send if they have an outlet nearby.

User avatar
nkforster
Blackwood
Posts: 249
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:02 am
Location: Gold Coast
Contact:

Re: Warning - Border Control have shifted the goal posts

Post by nkforster » Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:36 am

Steve.Toscano wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2023 1:07 pm
Weird, i send overseas through pack and send (who then use DHL in most cases). Never had to jump through any hoops.
Last instrument was valued and insured at $9750 aud.


I used to self insure, but swapped to trusting PnS' insurance.
I didn't know PackSend insured up to that sort of amount, I'll take a look. In the UK, Interparcel used to take your money for "loss or damage" only to find when there was a problem that the "loss" side of that insurance was limited to £200, the damage to the full amount. Sods.

User avatar
kiwigeo
Admin
Posts: 10582
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:57 pm
Location: Adelaide, Sth Australia

Re: Warning - Border Control have shifted the goal posts

Post by kiwigeo » Tue Jun 13, 2023 7:21 am

Buy me two seats in business class and I'll personally escort your instrument to the US and hand deliver to its new owner :mrgreen:
Martin

User avatar
peter.coombe
Blackwood
Posts: 723
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:52 pm
Location: Bega, NSW
Contact:

Re: Warning - Border Control have shifted the goal posts

Post by peter.coombe » Wed Jun 14, 2023 10:24 am

I have used Pack and Send before several times, but they don't have a local office (nearest is Canberra) and the local couriers they use are hopeless. It is always a big hassle to get anything picked up. Couriers are also quite a bit more expensive than Australia Post, so with the smaller packages (mandolins mostly) it is much easier and cheaper to use Australia Post, even if I do need to front up at a Border Force counter with ID. You don't need to go through the hoops with Border Force if you use a courier because the couriers have the software that talks to Border Force's ICS system, so they do all that stuff for you electronically. For guitars that are too big for Australia Post I still use Pack and Send and expect problems and at least a week for the package to leave my door, and several days to get to Sydney and get into DHL's hands. Once into DHL's hands, it is good to go. To avoid all this shit I would need to drive to Canberra, which is a 3.5hr drive both ways. For one shipment, the Canberra Pack and Send guy got fed up with the local courier and made a round trip along the NSW south coast and picked it up himself along with several other packages. Two weeks later the courier turned up for the pickup. I am not the only one having these sorts of problems. Believe me, there have been times when I have thought about driving to Canberra.
Peter Coombe - mandolin, mandola and guitar maker
http://www.petercoombe.com

User avatar
Robert Gleason
Wandoo
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:37 am

Re: Warning - Border Control have shifted the goal posts

Post by Robert Gleason » Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:31 am

For what it's worth, we have the same issue here in the U.S. I can't send anything out of the U.S. valued at over $2500 ( may be $2000 can't remember) without paying a customs broker about $75.00 to do the paperwork. Customs won't let me do it myself. Under valuing has usually been the work around, but then I can't insure it for he full value. You are really taking a chance to save the customer money, but if they can afford the instrument, then they can afford the extra shipping cost. Things can happen. I recently shipped a uke to Japan and the customer gave me the wrong street address number. He said it happened because he was using an electronic language translator. Customs in Japan refused to release the uke and it is now on it's way back to me. Projected 6-8 weeks by surface mail instead of the 4-5 day Priority mail that I sent it with. I'm glad it is insured, though I have my doubts that insurance means anything if I actually have to make a claim!-Bob

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 121 guests