All Australian

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Trevor Gore
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All Australian

Post by Trevor Gore » Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:59 pm

Strange as it may seem, this is the first 100% Aussie timbers guitar I've done, for a very much all Australian customer.
Wandoo B&S, KBP top, KPB/CF falcate top bracing, silver ash back bracing, that @#$! mad gidgee for binding, spalted blackwood rosette (gidgee rings), figured QLD maple neck, brush box fretboard, QLD walnut stained bridge (can still smell it every time I switch the bandsaw on, AND that stuff eats blades), brush box bridge plate, QLD maple end blocks, silver ash linings, stained brushbox magnetic arm rest. FP finish for top, B&S; nitro on the neck and arm rest.

It's based on my small classical body shape (340mm lower bout), but I tucked the upper bout in a bit; 24.9" scale, has a tilt neck and otherwise the stuff I normally do. Seriously loud for a small guitar. For any guitar, for that matter.
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kiwigeo
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Re: All Australian

Post by kiwigeo » Mon Nov 02, 2015 7:18 am

Now hang on....that's not traditional is it??? :mrgreen:
Martin

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Mark McLean
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Re: All Australian

Post by Mark McLean » Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:13 pm

Yes, shameful ignorance of the traditions being displayed here! More research please.
If you need any pointers I could recommend a good book on the topic that you could take a look at. Oh, hang on........

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56nortondomy
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Re: All Australian

Post by 56nortondomy » Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:00 pm

That looks great Trevor, all the timbers go nicely together and I love that rosette.
Wayne

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Trevor Gore
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Re: All Australian

Post by Trevor Gore » Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:21 pm

kiwigeo wrote:Now hang on....that's not traditional is it??? :mrgreen:
:lol: I gave up "traditional" before I started! The first guitar I built had a straight string pull, asymmetric head stock and compensated nut and saddle. It did have X-bracing though, before I rapidly moved on to other things.
56nortondomy wrote:That looks great Trevor, all the timbers go nicely together and I love that rosette.
Thanks Wayne. The rosette was inspired by Jim Matheas (Melbourne). Jim and Jack (Spira) are making some really nice rosettes, mixing tradition and modernism. Those who visited the Melbourne Guitar Makers Festival will know what I mean.

One thing I didn't mention before is that the body finish is a one day French polish. Doesn't seem any the worse for it.

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kiwigeo
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Re: All Australian

Post by kiwigeo » Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:54 am

Trevor Gore wrote: One thing I didn't mention before is that the body finish is a one day French polish. Doesn't seem any the worse for it.
Oh dear THAT'S just asking for trouble :shock:
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Trevor Gore
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Re: All Australian

Post by Trevor Gore » Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:38 am

kiwigeo wrote:Oh dear THAT'S just asking for trouble :shock:
THAT depends on how you do it! :mrgreen:

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kiwigeo
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Re: All Australian

Post by kiwigeo » Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:19 am

Trevor Gore wrote:
kiwigeo wrote:Oh dear THAT'S just asking for trouble :shock:
THAT depends on how you do it! :mrgreen:
Um I was referring more to trouble with the traditionalists rather than trouble with the finish.

You used an acetone/meths mix for FP?
Martin

hepikohetaniwha
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Re: All Australian

Post by hepikohetaniwha » Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:11 pm

Would love to hear how you achieved that beautiful FP in one day! :-)

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Trevor Gore
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Re: All Australian

Post by Trevor Gore » Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:54 pm

kiwigeo wrote:You used an acetone/meths mix for FP?
Yep.
hepikohetaniwha wrote:Would love to hear how you achieved that beautiful FP in one day! :-)
Fresh chemistry, no grain fill, no oil, warm low humidity day, cross flow breeze and a handle on the body so you can get at all surfaces all the time. I can't remember how many sessions (5 or 6 likely), but leave an hour or so between. Glaze with very dilute shellac, very dry pad, only alcohol as solvent. Done.

Not something you could pull off on a wet Sunday in the UK.

jeffhigh
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Re: All Australian

Post by jeffhigh » Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:24 pm

Looking Good.
What sort of Stiffness modulus figures did you get on the King Billy soundboard Trevor?

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kiwigeo
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Re: All Australian

Post by kiwigeo » Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:44 pm

Trevor Gore wrote:Strange as it may seem, this is the first 100% Aussie timbers guitar I've done, for a very much all Australian customer.
I didn't know Sir Les played guitar.
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Trevor Gore
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Re: All Australian

Post by Trevor Gore » Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:31 am

jeffhigh wrote:What sort of Stiffness modulus figures did you get on the King Billy soundboard Trevor?
Normally, I can answer a question like that really easily, but it's not in my records, so I must have missed hitting "Save". The wood was not rectangular, with a bark edge diagonally across the upper bout and I remember doing a lot of fiddling around to get a result, which by memory was around 4GPa for Elong; really quite floppy. Ecross was similarly low, but no record. Probably below 0.5GPa. Maybe I didn't hit Save because of all the program changes I had to do to force a result. Anyway, the target thickness using the usual formula was 3.5mm; i.e. massive for such a small guitar. I do have a separate record for that. The T(1,1)2 is 191Hz, which is close enough to what I was aiming for and the T(1,1)1 is at 100.6Hz.

jeffhigh
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Re: All Australian

Post by jeffhigh » Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:09 pm

Thanks Trevor,
When I tested a few soundboards in my stash a few years ago with deflection testing (pre the Books) they were coming in under 5Gpa and without being particularly low density to compensate.
I have avoided using them, which is hard when you face a sentimental "all Aussie" attitude from a customer.
How did you end up on thickness, did you use the 3.5mm target or compensate in some other manner

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Trevor Gore
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Re: All Australian

Post by Trevor Gore » Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:38 pm

jeffhigh wrote:How did you end up on thickness, did you use the 3.5mm target or compensate in some other manner
I used the 3.5mm number. Then the usual edge thinning etc. during the build. I don't have a record of the density (gets saved with the other data) but by memory it was "average" for KPB, neither particularly high or low. I think the reason the guitar worked so well was that it was small - so the overall soundboard mass was still reasonably low. A lighter soundboard may have sounded too banjoey., and on a larger guitar this wood would have been well down on monopole mobility. I have it on good authority that KPB does come in light and stiff, but I haven't seen any of that stuff yet.
jeffhigh wrote:When I tested a few soundboards in my stash a few years ago with deflection testing (pre the Books) they were coming in under 5Gpa and without being particularly low density to compensate.
I have avoided using them, which is hard when you face a sentimental "all Aussie" attitude from a customer.
Probably will work OK for small guitars - but too small and the bass drops out too much.

soundshooter
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Re: All Australian

Post by soundshooter » Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:28 am

Hi Trevor,
Nice work.
I am curious about your armrest.
Is it carved from one piece or several bent and laminated?
Are the magnets simply glued to the inside of the rim or a are they inbedded in a block or splint? Once the armrest is mounted is it secure or does one need to be cautious how the guitar is handled to avoid dislodging?
Does the mounted armrest affect the modal tuning of the box?
Thanks

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Trevor Gore
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Re: All Australian

Post by Trevor Gore » Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:17 pm

soundshooter wrote:Nice work.

Thanks.
soundshooter wrote:Is it carved from one piece or several bent and laminated?
Are the magnets simply glued to the inside of the rim or a are they inbedded in a block or splint?

Nick Payne wrote this guide to making armrests, and it is similar to the way I do it. I use a separate mould for the bent work, modelled from the plantilla and I glue the "cap" on top of the bent part rather than wrapping the bent part around the cap. Think carefully about your order of work. You need to be able to hold the parts to shape them and then be able to glue them together accurately.
soundshooter wrote:Once the armrest is mounted is it secure or does one need to be cautious how the guitar is handled to avoid dislodging?
The security of the armrest is strictly a function of the proximity of the mating magnets. So its all about closeness of fit. I put the body magnets in pockets in the linings, but remember that you have to be able to rout ledges for the bindings. A TC binding cutter and a neodymium magnet are not nice playmates. If well fit, you should be able to pick the guitar up by its armrest without it falling off. With sufficiently clumsy handling, yes, the armrest can be knocked off. If dropped onto a hard floor, the armrest will likely be damaged. It should survive a fall onto carpet fine. I use felt where Nick uses cork for the surface protection.
soundshooter wrote:Does the mounted armrest affect the modal tuning of the box?
Mine don't.

routout
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Re: All Australian

Post by routout » Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:34 pm

I like the smaller body more these days ,all OZ yes I guess requests have to be met :D
John ,of way too many things to do.

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kiwigeo
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Re: All Australian

Post by kiwigeo » Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:38 pm

Nice guitar but technically it isn't 100% Australian unless it has a built in stubbie holder :mrgreen:
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soundshooter
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Re: All Australian

Post by soundshooter » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:13 pm

Thanks Trevor

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