Election Day today!

[Paul B]

Don't forget to vote today!

For all you non-Australians, voting here is compulsory, we get fined if we don't vote, and today is the Federal election.

I work in Mr Howard's (the Primeminister's) seat of Bennelong, the demographic there has changed quite a bit over the last few years, I expect him to lose his seat today - whether or not the coalition wins. I put $20 on Maxine (a former political journalist) to win, the first time I've placed a bet on something other than the ponys. The odds just didn't reflect what the polls were saying, so I couldn't help myself.

Today is going to be an interesting day, regardless of who wins government. Today the people speak.

[Bob Connor]

So you reckon Johnny's going to join Stanley Bruce in the record books Paul?

Polls are closer as of last night but I think we'll see a change.

[Paul B]

Mate, it's wall to wall Chinese in Bennelong these days, and they don't like him so much.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's gonna get his ass handed to him today. Shit, I'd put money on it

[kiwigeo]

My money's on the Liberals scraping in by the skin of their teeth. Lots of recounts I reckon.

[Hesh1956]

I'm curious - in the states if the election were held today it would be largely decided on one major issue - Iraq and getting us out of there.

Is this a big issue for Australia as well knowing as I do that both Australia and the US are allies in Iraq?

In the states it is not mandatory to vote because they tend to not count all the votes any way......... Something to do with lynching a guy name Chad.....

Disgruntled in Ann Arbor.......

[Dennis Leahy]

Congratulations to the citizens of Australia, for ousting Howard (about whom I know little, but know he would not sign the Kyoto Protocol nor leave Iraq, and is a friend to GW Bush.)

This underscores the US as the only remaining industrialized nation not to sign Kyoto Protocol. No fuzzy line there, the rest of the world will now clearly see that the official US government stance on global warming is "go phuck yourself!"

A very powerful, and very sneaky law was enacted in the US during Bush's first term, that allows media (newspapers, TV and radio stations) to become immense conglomerates. What this has done is to put the vast majority of the US media in the hands of ultra-right wing conservatives (ironically, including Oz's own Rupert Murdoch.) What this means is that the sheep (about half of Americans I consider to be sheep) will continue to be fed ultra-right wing conservative propaganda, and so you will not see any major shift in the politics of America anytime soon.

I LOVE your law requiring voters to vote! In the US, we are lucky to get half the eligible voters to bother. I do realize that Oz has representative democracy, like the US, and so the will of the masses is not necessarily realized, but it does appear that the masses have clearly spoken to bring in new representatives.

Here's hoping that the newly elected will prove to be worthy.

Good onya mates!

Dennis

[Bob Connor]

The election was won by the Labour party here essentially on domestic issues Hesh.

Rising mortgage interest rates and an unpopular piece of industrial relations legislation called Workchoices (which gave employers a lot more power in hiring/firing and negotiation of employment contracts) were probably the straw that broke the camels back.

Climate change and education were other features of the election campaign.

Iraq was not placed on the agenda as an election issue but I'm certain that it was in a lot of peoples minds as they cast their vote. It certainly was in mine.

The exiting government (Liberals) had been in power for 11 years and I think there was a feeling that it was time for a change and fresh ideas and outlooks were needed.

The Aussie battler (what you'd call Middle America) spoke and most of the largest swings occurred in electorates where working familes with mortgages were battling to to bring up young familes.

The incumbent Prime Minister also looks like losing his seat. Only the second time this has happened and in both cases it was due to unpopular industrial relations decisions.

Bob

[Allen]

Like in the USA, the media here is by and large controlled by a few companies with vested interests in who is going to keep them making heaps of money. You have to dig deep and listen very carefully to hear anything about the back room dealings that benefit the real power brokers in this country. The Exclusive Brethren are just one example that have by and large managed to stay below the radar, and I'm sure they prefer it that way.

I think that a lot of people had finally clued into Howard's tactics after so many elections. Especially the last one.

Fool me once, shame you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Try and fool me again....go piss off.

So long Mr. Howard

[Paul B]

I'm curious - in the states if the election were held today it would be largely decided on one major issue - Iraq and getting us out of there.

Is this a big issue for Australia as well knowing as I do that both Australia and the US are allies in Iraq?

In the states it is not mandatory to vote because they tend to not count all the votes any way......... Something to do with lynching a guy name Chad.....

Disgruntled in Ann Arbor.......

Iraq was very much on my mind Hesh, as was Kyoto and the closing of the detention centre on Nauru - this last one was about intercepting refugees and making sure they didn't land on Australian soil because then they'd have some rights, so we ship them off to some little shitsplat island nation and hold them there, not much compassion involved (and that is not what Australia is about IMHO - poor, huddled masses, and all that).

Regime change cuts both ways, so it seems.

Oh, and can anyone tell me the last time the USA was at war, and Australia wasn't on the same side? I'll give you a hint; it was the century before last, a domestic affair. But this Iraq thing....

Long live the revolution.

[Kim]

I am real happy to see that slimy cockroach John Howard and his cronies gone from office. There was talk last night about how we as a Nation should remember him for how he showed leadership in times of crisis. What a freakin joke, he was the crisis. What realy took place is that Howard took advantage of troubled times to gain political mileage and to position our nation into the most embarrassing situation it has every found itself in the face of the world.

Shame on him and shame on Australia for allowing this to ever happen. With his destructive agenda in mind, it is little wonder that his first act in parliament 11 years ago was to introduce gun control, it was a policy of self defence. Under Howard's tenure the essence of "The ANZAC Spirit" has become diluted like watered down cordial by his constant abduction of that and other terms like "The Aussie Battler" and "A Fair Go" as he struggled to maintain some veneer of Australian-ism veiling his greed driven, socially irresponsible policies.

So, to the most UnAustralian prime minister our nation has ever had to bare I raise my stubbie and toast "Good riddance to bad rubbish, may Howard's retirement be short and miserable." Ungracious as it may be, I lament the lost of a time gone by when tyranny found it's true reward as it danced a short jig at the end of a rope before the angry mob.

Ah...that feels better, the Irish blood of my ancestry has been mollified

Cheers

Kim

[Allen]

Bravo Kim.

The most fitting end is to loose his own seat as well. If that isn't the biggest smack on the bottom.

[matthew]

"Australia's best years are yet to come" - J Howard

Der!

[Dennis Leahy]

... What a freakin joke, he was the crisis. What realy took place is that [Bush] took advantage of troubled times to gain political mileage and to position our nation into the most embarrassing situation it has every found itself in the face of the world.

Shame on him and shame on [the USA] for allowing this to ever happen. With his destructive agenda ... veiling his greed driven, socially irresponsible policies.

So, to the most [UnAmerican president] our nation has ever had to bare I raise my stubbie and toast "Good riddance to bad rubbish, may [Bush and Cheney's] retirement be short and miserable." Ungracious as it may be, I lament the lost of a time gone by when tyranny found it's true reward as it danced a short jig at the end of a rope before the angry mob.

Ah...that feels better, the Irish blood of my ancestry has been mollified

Cheers

Kim

Kim, with a few simple word substitutions, you have written my speech as Bush and Cheney will finally be dragged from the US White House, in 1 year, 57 days, and 33 minutes. Unfortunately, it will take a long, long time to undo what they have done - that which can be undone.

What baffles me the most is how, in the "Information Age", these malevolent bastards can get away with it, in full public view. I guess it's mostly the psychology of fear, stabbing into the reptilian brain, thus overriding intellectual response.

Dennis

[Allen]

Did someone say "Axis of Evil".

I think all truly successful politicians (thats to say, a bastard that should be shot, but stays in office despite needing to be shot) has lifted the diversion tactics of us against them to a high art form.

And I'm afraid to say that it seems to work. We're doomed to repeat this process over and over until we just get sick and tired of living in fear. But our memories are dreadfully short. It'll only be a few short years and the next seedy poly will try this trick on us again...and it will probably work.

[Paul B]

Hey Kim, no don't hold back mate.

Tell us what you really think.

I might be classed (nowadays) as a white collar worker, but in my heart I'm blue collar through and through, always will be - and bloody proud of it. If you forget where you come from...

The 1984esq industrial relations laws are now gone - all that we fought for, for years and years, is now (or will soon be) re-established. Though this doesn't effect me so much, it does effect our children entering the workforce.

All together now: "You can't touch me I'm part of the Union, You can't touch me I'm part of the Union...."

Sanity has prevailed. We didn't quite build barbed wire fences around our country but for a while there it felt as if we were about to. If it had gotten that far, I'd be out right now tearing those buggers down.

[Kim]

Hey Kim, no don't hold back mate.

Tell us what you really think.

I might be classed (nowadays) as a white collar worker, but in my heart I'm blue collar through and through.

All together now: "You can't touch me I'm part of the Union, You can't touch me I'm part of the Union...."

Sanity has prevailed.

Thanks all

Paul, I am glad you managed be perceptive enough to detect the restraint displayed in my above comments. As tolerant as the ANZLF is, I feel that had I had spoken my mind and expressed the depth of loathing I hold for that "skid mark upon the underpants of humanity" which is the Australian liberal party, I may have actually offended someone.

Cheers

Kim

[sebastiaan56]

Go Kim, say it like it is mate! There was an obit in yesterdays Sun Herald by Thomas Keneally, really worth reading. His ending line is something like "Now we dont have to hate each other any more". Howard's greatest ability was wedge politics, a loathsome tactic. I wont miss it at all.

Iraq is a sleeper in Aus as there have been very few of our bravest killed or maimed there. Unlike the US.

Sebastiaan

[Hesh1956]

"Skid mark of the under pants of humanity" - Now that one I will remember since I am laughing my ass off here.

You guys are fantastic!!!! I could not agree with more things that I just read in this thread and I love ya all!!!! Not in that sense of course......

Dennis you just made a friend for life and it is so very refreshing to share your views - all of them!!!!

Bush is our national idiot and the only reason reason no one has taken a shot at Cheney is to prevent Bush from becoming president...... I call Bush Cheney's lap dummy.

And it is so very true that after 9/11 we has the good will of the world at our disposal and it was all pissed away in a needless, unjust war against the guy who tried to have Bush senior killed. The only WMD is Bush in my view.

I tell people that America is like a drunk in a bar who gets sucker punched and as he goes down on the floor and has no idea who hit him he has only one thought on his mind - getting up and punching the next person that he can find...... Although, in a bar, this can be fun to do - in international politics it does not play well.

I'll let you guys in on a secret - before the last 4 of my guitars have been closed up I find out the current American death toll in Iraq and write it on the inside of the top with a statement to end the war...... I could never show pics of this because it is highly political in nature.......

In the states there has been no domestic policy since Bill and Hillary left the white house. As mentioned when ever Bush gets low in the public opinion polls he comes up with some new, false terror alert to keep us afraid and hiding behind his coat tails. For the first time in American history it is no longer legal for the media to show video or pictures of dead Americans in caskets from this war......

Tom Friedman, a greatly respected oped writer for the New York times says that Bush is radioactive in as much as no world leaders will have any thing to do with him........

You guys are very refreshing and Oz sounds like a place where people do more thinking and less blindly following a sucker punched drunk bent of revenge.

My hats off to ya M8s!

[Serge]

That's why it's important to vote, you gotta vote in order to be able to complain about them later, during or near the end of their terms.

There is a saying here that goes like this: We got the leaders that we deserve, don't know if this is true but when i look around here, all i see is rotten people who think about themselves and what the government will do for them, i think it's why socialism is so rampant and threatens our freedom of speach nowadays. Freedom starts at home and in our hearts.

Power leads to corruption and absolute power corrupts absolutely, the more we ask of them, the more we give them control over our collective destiny and individual rights IMVHO.

[Hesh1956]

Serge bro one of the very best quotes that I have ever heard was from a Canadian who was the mayor of Sarnia.

The subject was why Sarnia had had only one murder in 7 years and when across the river in Detoilet (Detroit) they average something like 150 murders a year.

The mayor was asked if the Canadian culture was, in his belief, the reason whey Americans kill each other so often and Canadians don't.

The mayor replied something like "you have to understand something about us Canadians - here we believe that NO one is OK is everyone is not OK......"

Impressive!

[Dennis Leahy]

Hi Hesh!

Well, I won't clog up the Oz election thread too much more with US politics, but Hesh, thanks for being one of the people with eyes wide open.

I was in shock in 2000 when - in plain sight - Bush and his backers stole the election from Al Gore. Then, I honestly fell into my first and only real depression in 2004 when Bush was reelected. I had campaigned door-to-door for Kerry/Edwards (probably not the greatest choice for president/vp, but then who is? They were 1 trillion times better than Bush/Cheney), and I am not at all the kind of person that will go door-to-door for anything. I had written and sent an impassioned 8-page letter denouncing Bush and Cheney and exposing their lies, and in support of Kerry and Edwards to every one of my family members, friends, and acquaintances. I felt so phucking helpless when Bush won again, and I started seriously considering which country to move to and giving up my US citizenship. Knowing what it would do to my wife and child to be uprooted, and moved to another country without having a job or any friends there made it seem impossible, and deepened my helplessness and depression.

So, I look forward to continued defeats of ultra-right wing, greed-driven, fear spreading, war mongering, military industrial complex benefiting, corporate pandering, status quo placating, 5% ultra-rich supporting, lapdog tail-wagging, two-faced lying scum with unethical, immoral, and eco-illogical deeds while verbally purporting to serve God, citizens and humanity.

(Yes, that's how I really feel!)

Again, only time will tell whether those just elected in Oz are truly up to the task and will hold their integrity, or if they will be consumed by the Australian political machine. There was a pretty impressive ousting of scum from US Senate and Congress in 2006, and it appears the "good guys" that replaced them don't have the balls to be effective in stopping the Bush/Cheney/5% machine. Bush and Cheney should have been impeached, not coddled. (Like I said, control of the media is a VERY powerful tool.) Don't forget to keep writing to those newly elected, and let them know how you feel. If you don't, they'll only hear the din from the lobbyists and the politically entrenched.

Dennis

[Bob Connor]

Hopefully now we'll see an Australian President in the not too distant future and throw off the last remaining threads of of colonialism that belong in another era.

The 1999 referendum was a farce and I was deeply dissapointed in the outcome.

Beneath the Southern Cross I stand
A sprig of watlle in my hand
A symbol of our native Land
Australia you F.....g beauty

Bob

[sebastiaan56]

When the OPEC forum was on here in Sydney we had a couple of brilliant pieces in the local press. My favourite was from Philip Adams who claimed the wall a success because it kept the war criminals in and away from the general population. There is a good case to be made that Bush, Cheney, Howard and Blair be hauled to the Hague and made to face charges of crimes against humanity. Unfortunately they are surrounded by their goons so citizens arrests arent possible.

I also watched the 2000 election in the States with great dismay, there were accusations of rampant cheating here and no one has ever dissuaded me of that notion. I love the Americans I have met, but your political masters over the last few years have ruined your country. For me it really fell apart when Bush stated that he invaded Iraq after a dream given to him be God. His version of Christianity is a doomsday cult and I think he is trying to consiously hasten the "end". A leader directed by God is a scary thing. I personally dont think she would approve of his actions.

Dennis, you've articulated my feelings rather well. Let me add that the preferred tactics of spreading fear and splitting up the society (wedge politics) belong in the cold war. The notion that sections of the society are actively trying to degenerate the whole is society is the claim. Nauseating. Here Howard did it to the Aboriginal people, Mothers, Refugees, Muslims and Unions. Sooner or later he had to tick off the large part of the population, this year was it. Good riddance to bigotry. Lets see what the new bloke does....

Sebastiaan

[Hesh1956]

I was on a cross country flight once where right after take off the flight attendant refused my request for a scotch and water....... Her reason was "we know who you are and you will not be served...." I was dumb founded and this was the first flight that I had been on in a few weeks.

I offered my drivers license which she looked at, summoned the lead flight attendant, and he replied that this picture was not me and he was turning it in, and me, to the police on landing.

To compound matters my girl friend decided to have an appendicitis on this 4 hour flight to California too and because of the "we know who you are" mistake" they refused to help her........

I was livid and got on the sky phone and called the LA times, explained what was happening and they put me through to the LAX Sheriffs dept. who agreed that there was some mistaken identity going on.......

In any event the police called the airline who contacted the plane in route and told the flight attendants to stand down..... It seems that the person in my seat prior to my flight was belligerent and drunk..... Because I was in the seat now these Einsteins believed me to be him......

Any way this was post 9/11 and these days when told to sit down and shut up by a flight attendant you do so at once here in the states so that some sky marshall with a Beretta with reduced power wad cutter loads does not stand up, aim, fire three times, and repeat as necessary.....

When we landed all the flight attendants were the first out the door and no where to be found. They never even stayed around to help the passengers off. A couple of Sherriff deputies were waiting for us and knew me on sight for some reason unknown to me. A Northwest airlines suit was there with apologies up and down and offering me 3 free round trip tickets. My girlfriend was stable but they told us that there was an ambulance on the way and to wait here for the attendants.

When offered the 3 round trip tickets I refused. The Northwest guy upped it to 5 round trip tickets (domestic) and I refused. Just then a guy from the LA times butted in and asked me if I was me and that he was here to interview me for his story "terror in the skies...." The Northwest suit looked at me and said "OK How many?" I replied 10 round trip tickets - each for my girlfriend and I and this all goes away. He agreed.

But the point here is that not only has our world changed when a ship stinks the rats scatter away very fast like the flight attendants did here. We have seen our AG leave, 2 of them in fact, along with a host of others who are seeking to disassociate themselves with the Bush administration prior to the level of the abuses that they have done becomes more widely known.

This administration has violated the constitution in many ways and far more than any other previous administration. It is likely that we will never know the extent of the damage that these idiots have caused, the abuses, and their legacy will live on after them in the surpream court appointments that they made........

Yes the election was stolen and I also believe that in the beginning Bush never expected to win in the first place.

Sorry for digressing but like Dennis I too am passionate about saving our country from the criminals who run it.

[Allen]

Some of the most passionate and eloquent dissertations that I've seen in a very long time. Thanks one and all.