Assistants? Staff? Apprentices??

[Ormsby Guitars]

Ive had a couple guys help me over the years, with varying success. One was fantastic, until he quit the day before I was due to fly out to the USA to sign a big distro deal for my guitars. I had to knock it back because I knew I couldnt fulfill it. It was a killer deal. Im still bitter.

The other, was a friend, and I spent way too much time being his friend rather than his boss, to my own detriment.

Im looking at my workload, which seems to be getting bigger and bigger every month, despite me getting through twice as much work this year. Ive dropped my repairs from 30-40 a week, to about 8-10. Ive raised repair prices. That didnt stop them. I have a massive gate outside now, to stop people coming in without appointments so I can avoid their work. They find a way around that... I dont have the address listed ANYWHERE... they still find me. Im working more hours than ever before. I even stopped taking orders for custom guitars for 11 months of last year (and about to stop again). Ive still got more than 40 on the books.

I think I need an assistant again. But with the problems Ive had previously, the thought of that makes me nervous. Plus, then I have to watch someone again, instead of just doing it myself.

Ive thought of maybe hiring an older guy, someone semi retired. Ive thought of uni students... part timers who are trained to do specific jobs, and those jobs only. Hell, I even had a hair brained scheme of running a year long 'course' where they pay me to let them work here But, no matter which way I think about it... I can't see it working. There is no one out there already 'trained'. The guys Ive had come through that DO have experience, where at best 'hacks'. At worst... well... worse. Everything starts from the ground up. Kids these days have no hand skills. They dont do woodwork any more. They all want $70k packages straight out of school. By the time you work out they are no good, you've invested too much time. I thought that running guitar making courses might uncover a hidden gem. There have been a few... and all are very happy working their current jobs...

There has got to be someone out there with ideas. Thoughts. How to find the RIGHT people. WHERE to find the right people. Last time I advertised, I got 85 resumes. I didn't see one that stood out. One listed his crowning achievement as being able to 'pull a good head on a beer'. Ive been to employment centres. They want me to employ ex crims and get a grant to do it. Im starting to pull my hair out here! Plus,I don't want to create any more opposition for myself... done that twice already now...

[Nick]

You might have made a good start by posting here Perry, there maybe an aussie forum member here who wants to transition over to fulltime loofery & doesn't mind a shift to WA.
Apart from that, as a mechanical engineer I've always had to do a practical test whenever applying for jobs, something small (you don't want it to last all day!) that not only tested my hand skills but had an element of problem solving involved just to see how I thought through things. Having been in the trade for some years now & if it was me hiring, I would set what I thought to be a reasonable (based on their experience e.t.c) timelimit also to see how they handle timeframes, I've worked with some mighty slow engineers that in a production or repair situation, just cost the employer a power of lost time but were in the public sector so time wasn't such an issue because it wasn't policed by the bosses (probably because they were slack arses too!).
As to where you'd find them........ maybe joinery shops, furniture makers, they already have woodworking skills it would then be a matter of filling in the areas that are specialist to the guiatr world. Unfortunately this sort of work is one of those things where many people, mostly dreamers think "Oh making & repairing guitars, that sounds romantic, I'll give it a go" & you end up with people who can pour a good beer! Not sure where the best places to find good candidates would be in your neck of the woods maybe Steve or somebody close to you can answer that one better, I wish you luck with it though, it's never easy finding the 'right' people.

[nnickusa]

Wish I lived in Perth, dammit! Seems to be lots of jobs going there

Raeason they all want big money out there is, they can trot off to the mines, but don't want to, so they look to get the same money as "Joey."

If you ever have an opening in Byron Shire, give me a shout

[liam_fnq]

What sort of salary do you expect this person to work for? And no, I'm not interested.

I think the old saying rings true "Pay peanuts, get monkeys". I think your best bet if you want someone who has some noust and some hand/tool skills, is to hire someone who is already trade qualified. Of course you'll have to pay them enough to lure them away from their trade. As for training up your opposition. Once again, the package has to be too good to make them want to take the risk of being a boss. What does every other employer of skilled labour do?

[kiwigeo]

Like it or not hiring skilled labour in WA means competing with the mining industry. I have a degree and 26 years experience and pull in about $200,000 p.a. That said there are dock workers on the wharf in Dampier earning more than me.

If I was living in Perth I'd definitely send you my CV....Im semi retired at present and a job working with guitars would be perfect to see out my twilight years. Unfortunately I live in Adelaide...much cheaper living costs than Perth.

[Nick]

I have a degree and 26 years experience and pull in about $200,000 p.a.

Peasant



Geez, no wonder you're not still here in Un Zud, a Professor only pulls in 170-180K and that's freekin good money in these here parts. No wonder lots of the cousy bro's are lining up at the door to the mining recruitment seminars!

[Ormsby Guitars]

What sort of salary do you expect this person to work for? And no, I'm not interested.

I thought $20 an hour (four years ago), plus weekly cash bonuses ($20-60), plus the option of a profit share once the US deal was sealed, plus set your own hours, plus access to the factory for your own work on days off, plus paid lunch breaks, was reasonable. What's the hourly wage expected for this type of work?

I think the old saying rings true "Pay peanuts, get monkeys". I think your best bet if you want someone who has some noust and some hand/tool skills, is to hire someone who is already trade qualified. Of course you'll have to pay them enough to lure them away from their trade. As for training up your opposition. Once again, the package has to be too good to make them want to take the risk of being a boss. What does every other employer of skilled labour do?

I guess every other trade has an apprenticeship system where you get up to $16,000 to put someone on for three years (or less). Plus, a pool of already trained workers that can start straight away, and already know everything but where the lunch room is. It's a bit hard to compare a niche market, where internationals pay up to $30,000 for a years tuition to find a job, and here where there is maybe a couple positions (repair) and virtually no building jobs available. Steve (simso) employees a guy or two. Ive had a guy most of the time, Ellis has assistants doing menial tasks that don't let them know how a guitar goes together, etc etc. Fact is, there isnt a pool of workers. If you want someone, you have to train them in EVERY aspect of what they are doing. Imagine teaching a secretary to type on the job?

[kiwigeo]

I have a degree and 26 years experience and pull in about $200,000 p.a.

Peasant



Geez, no wonder you're not still here in Un Zud, a Professor only pulls in 170-180K and that's freekin good money in these here parts. No wonder lots of the cousy bro's are lining up at the door to the mining recruitment seminars!

A uni professor gets to go home at the end of a days work.....I get to walk down a hallway to a cabin and if I'm lucky it wont be a four man affair with everyone working cross tours. My job is one you can do into your late forties but when you get to 54 the lifestyle starts pushing your tolerance levels. Erratic work hours play havoc with your body clock and by the time you're in your 50's you'll be lucky if you don't have some sort of sleep disorder. And then there's working with Americans....26 years of that is enough to drive the thickest skinned person mad.

[liam_fnq]

I thought $20 an hour (four years ago), plus weekly cash bonuses ($20-60), plus the option of a profit share once the US deal was sealed, plus set your own hours, plus access to the factory for your own work on days off, plus paid lunch breaks, was reasonable. What's the hourly wage expected for this type of work? ?

Is that casual or fulltime?
That'd about get you a first year, school leaver electrical apprentice in my neck of the woods. A skilled labourer like a plant operator, add another $7-$8/hr. A skilled TA, ie not a tradesman and therefore pretty useless to the boss, add $10/hr.
For a basic electrical tradesman: $27/day to drive your own car to work, uniforms & boots, $25/wk tool allowance, site allowance, $70/wk redundancy and $35/hr. Overtime rate once over 40hrs. In the mines you get more.

I guess every other trade has an apprenticeship system where you get up to $16,000 to put someone on for three years (or less). Plus, a pool of already trained workers that can start straight away, and already know everything but where the lunch room is. It's a bit hard to compare a niche market, where internationals pay up to $30,000 for a years tuition to find a job, and here where there is maybe a couple positions (repair) and virtually no building jobs available. Steve (simso) employees a guy or two. Ive had a guy most of the time, Ellis has assistants doing menial tasks that don't let them know how a guitar goes together, etc etc. Fact is, there isnt a pool of workers. If you want someone, you have to train them in EVERY aspect of what they are doing. Imagine teaching a secretary to type on the job?

If you pull from a pool of skilled workers you'll know they can learn/ be taught. You'll have to pay them more.
Or you can pull from a pool of unskilled workers and ask yourself why they're unskilled?

I hope I don't sound too negative. I'm certainly not having a go at you and I certainly don't envy your position as an business owner/employer.

[nnickusa]

Perry,

Seriously, you need to relocate to the bucolic hills of Byron Shire.....

No, seriously, If I recall you were paying the guy who ruined nut slots $25/hr....That seems reasonable, with bonuses and paid lunch---Jeez.

$52K etc, and, and, and....

But, as you said, many guys will decide they don't really "need" you once they've learned the ropes....tough call, and specialty businesses are very hard to staff......

You'd hope that the effort you put into someone engenders a sense of respect and loyalty, but I don't think we live in that world anymore.....good luck with the search mate....You might try to see if there are any disaffected carpenters apprentices around. At least they might have some experience with woodwork...

[Ormsby Guitars]

Perry,

Seriously, you need to relocate to the bucolic hills of Byron Shire.....

No, seriously, If I recall you were paying the guy who ruined nut slots $25/hr....That seems reasonable, with bonuses and paid lunch---Jeez.

$52K etc, and, and, and....

But, as you said, many guys will decide they don't really "need" you once they've learned the ropes....tough call, and specialty businesses are very hard to staff......

You'd hope that the effort you put into someone engenders a sense of respect and loyalty, but I don't think we live in that world anymore.....good luck with the search mate....You might try to see if there are any disaffected carpenters apprentices around. At least they might have some experience with woodwork...

That was Steve. I guess my situation is a little different, as most of my clients (for custom guitars anyway) only want me working on them. Bit of sanding here and there aside, they want the main work done by me. They are ordering one of my guitars afterall... It's the repair work, and day to day stuff I wish I could find someone for. Pickup assembly, slotting fretboards, etc.

[nnickusa]

Ah, right you are. It was Steve.

Still, good luck. Most folks around here at the moment would take $20/hr, but we have the highest unemployment rates in Oz, historically, and virtually all the jobs are part time and casual. It's not a very healthy economy in the Byron area. 85% of the shire's income is from tourism, and during a bad year--like this year--everyone suffers, even the big guys. Ie: the Coles by my shop is putting off staff and cutting back hours for as many others as they can. I'm down to 6 staff hours a week from 24, and there are heaps of shops empty around the area.....Tough year..

And, it's not much cheaper to live here than in Sydney

Good luck with the search...

[Steve.Toscano]

Hi Perry. You still looking for someone?

[P Bill]

You need a good wood machinist. He'll know safety, machines and can process rough timber to routed bodys and necks. You'll only have to teach fretting, setup and wiring.

[P Bill]

Perry,
If possible screen out the musos and I'd look for someone that could teach me a few things.

[P Bill]

Sorry felix,
I just realised this is an old thread. I'll just go back to my fruit, yoghurt and rum.

[Dennis Leahy]

... And then there's working with Americans....26 years of that is enough to drive the thickest skinned person mad.

I did it for all my life - no wonder I gave up and started my own business. The boss is still an asshole, but he won't fire me.

Besides, the world needs "Americans." You need at least one country to be the most arrogant know-it-alls, the top-tier ecocidal maniacs, and be the best imperialistic military mercenaries that money can buy. Somebody has got to do the job, and we're the best qualified and have the most experience. We make Genghis Khan look like a girl scout. We're number one. USA! USA! USA!

hahahahahhahahaha

Oh wait, I'm serious!

Dennis

[Tod Gilding]

Perry, You Have Lost The Plot Mate.

[Ormsby Guitars]

Perry, You Have Lost The Plot Mate.

I have??

[Ormsby Guitars]

Hi Perry. You still looking for someone?

Yes.

[Tod Gilding]

Perry, You Have Lost The Plot Mate.

I have??

No disrespect intended Mate but it seems like you have the same problem as William Cumpiano, Too many people wanting things done and only one pair off hands, but Bill seems to handle the problem alright

[Ormsby Guitars]

Oh well, if having too much work that I cant take every order, is losing the plot, well, I guess I have.

Id have staff, if I could find them. But to be honest, since posting this thread, Im happy just working on my own.

[Tod Gilding]

You said It Perry Your Happy Working On your own