If The World Could Vote...

[Allen]

Here is a link to an impromptu election poll that allows the rest of of to cast a vote for the up coming US elections. Cast yours and see who is coming out on top.

If The World Could Vote.

[Bob Connor]

Very interesting Allen, particularly if you have a look at the breakdown of votes by country and see what proprtion is attributed to the USA.

[sebastiaan56]

Well a close result alright! Thx Allen,

[Paul B]

Well that's pretty interesting. Currently 87.1% of people who answered the survey voted for Obama. 80.7% of people from the US voted for Obama.

Dunno if that means anything in the real world.

Wish I could find a bookie who'd give me good odds on Obama tho. McCains camp seems to be imploding.

Whichever way this thing goes, George W fades into history, and that's got to be a good thing for everyone. Everyone's a winner.

[Hesh1956]

Other countries have mechanisms and procedures in place for votes of no confidence....... If a current leader goes astray (comparing Bush to a sheep here - no offense to our sheep lover members.... ) the countries people can call for a new and early election.

Had the US had this "opportunity" Bush would be out of office now.....

OTH Washington is so very infested with career politicians that are more interested in the brotherhood of the bell, towing the party line that the replacement for Bush and the confusion that results from a vote of no confidence might be worse than Bush for his entire 8 years.

I watched him speaking the other day and wondered if:

1) He is aware that he is the worse president in the history of the US

2) That thousands of folks (from many countries) have lost their lives needlessly through Bush's off target war on terror

3) That the war on terror AND how it was conducted is connected to the global recession that the US started. Sure bad mortgages are a big part of the economic woes but a 3 trillion dollar war in which the US had to borrow and borrow to wage it devalued our dollar to the point where the economy could not withstand other economic problems

4) No leadership on the alternative energy, climate change fronts left the US economy at the mercy of the folks with oil, some of these folks are the very same folks who took flying lessons in the US but were not interested in learning how to land the planes.......

Now the knee jerk reaction is for the American public to try a different direction that includes a candidate that has never accomplished anything beyond running for president..... Man that makes me excited for the future...............

I need to just go hide in my shop, stop watching the tube and reading newspapers or I am going to freak out at the state of affairs......

[Dennis Leahy]

Even 92% of those responding from Papua New Guinea want Obama.

Hesh, relax, mate, we're not electing Obama for his past deeds. That ok - we're ok with that. Honestly. With Obama comes a glimmer of hope. What training makes a good president? A good Governor? A good Senator? A good businessman? A good lawyer? How about if someone is simply charismatic, has a bunch of good ideas, and promises to consult with the best minds to solve current problems and start laying down the infrastructure toward deep, profound, positive change? We're electing Obama because:

1.) He is not owned by the Republican Party (the current hierarchy being composed of the greediest and most malevolent liars, thieves, and murderers ever assembled.) That's enough for me - that one alone. Anyone who cannot see that is simply not looking. (I have friends and family members who knew 4 years ago that they were going to vote for whomever the Republican Party offered. It's not that these people are devoid of brains or lacking in love - they simply have "bought" what the incredible Republican propaganda machine has fed to them.)

2.) Flawed as the Democratic Party is, it is the only possible solution to throw a monkey wrench into the Republican Machine that is devouring the USA, and maiming the rest of the world.

Maybe a few years from now, the Democrats will have run amok, and maybe they will need to be stopped, but right now, the hierarchy of the Republican Party has stolen that Party and operates overtly on the public perception of decency that is gleaned from the base constituency, and somewhat covertly from the interests of the military industrial complex, big oil, and big finance.

The Republican Party does not hate US citizens and they do not want US citizens (taxpayers) to die. They need us worker bees to keep collecting pollen until we die of exhaustion. They are laughing at us. They have hired the most astounding political consultants, advertising agencies and marketing firms, and have gained control of the US government for 20 of the past 28 years. They baffled us with bullshit, invoked our patriotism, got us to drop our guard. They changed the laws governing monopolies in ownership of newspaper, radio, and television - to assure that they could deliver their propaganda effectively. They have gutted our civil liberties in the name of patriotism, and now spy on all of us with impunity. They are laughing at us. They have removed multitudes of safeguards to the health of our water, air, and food, allowed unchecked and unprecedented destruction of our ecosystem and pillaging of our remaining wild lands, ignored species threats and destruction, steered us away from alternative technologies and fuels, promoted wars - wanton death - as a means to economic prosperity. They are laughing at us. I believe that it will eventually be proven that the current economic global meltdown was caused by deliberate and intentional financial mismanagement for which the consequences were foreseen, and that the same Republican hierarchy and their overlords are responsible. Of course, the responsibility for paying back the stunning bailout will fall to the taxpaying citizens/worker bees. If you listen, really listen above the drone of the beating of wings, you'll hear it: they are laughing at us.

Dennis

[sebastiaan56]

Hey guys,

Listen to this perspective http://www.abc.net.au/rn/perspective/st ... 402494.htm

I tend to agree with him, so how do we get a vote ?!?

[James Mc]

I’m not sure that anything online is much good as a guide… I suspect a lot of republicans aren’t computer literate and many would see computers as a device of the devil (lets nasty terrorists into our homes to brainwash their kids). If Bush is any indication you’d also have to wonder how many of them can't read.

I don’t know why the US doesn’t just appoint me to the job of President and give me powers over the Senate… better still just get rid if it. I’d do the job for five hundred thousand a year (Euro… not USD as it probably won’t be worth shit in five years). A Scottish born Australian greenie as the US President! Sounds like a winner to me and sure couldn’t be any worse than what they have now. “We would like to introduce you to the new benevolent dictator of the United States of America… James! And the crowds go wildâ€

[Hesh1956]

Well if you don't like paying for the US led global financial crisis stop having your economies have any interdependencies with the US.......

We are days from the election and I can't even watch the news anymore without getting upset....... So instead I am watching old episodes of the Sopranos to help me keep in touch with reality....

We are being fed such a line of shit from Obama with baseless promises of everything for everyone and the majority, according to the polls, has bought it hook, line, and sinker. No one seems to understand that the coffers are empty and although change of many things is desirable to me as well there is NO money to pay for it........

Bush was such a terrible leader and utter moron that he created a perfect storm in which someone such as Obama with nothing on his resume is attractive to some.

Santa seems to be having his campaign implode as Elle May Clampdownonit goes rogue (intentional and part of the RNC's drama).

I just wish that we could fast forward 2-3 years and see how things turn out....... Might be time to eat some crow for some of us, me included.

[Ron Wisdom]

Bush was such a terrible leader and utter moron that he created a perfect storm in which someone such as Obama with nothing on his resume is attractive to some.

I actually prefer Obama and I voted early. The only thing I see on McCain's resume is drool. After Bush, I may never vote republican again.

Ron

[Kim]

Bush was such a terrible leader and utter moron that he created a perfect storm in which someone such as Obama with nothing on his resume is attractive to some.

I actually prefer Obama and I voted early. The only thing I see on McCain's resume is drool. After Bush, I may never vote republican again.

Ron

As I see it, if one is not happy with the performance of a parties leadership, they MUST punish the entire party.

I do not believe for a second that the tightly woven fabric of a political party would have failed to filter out a rough with the unethical and unintelligent dimensions of WW Bush, unless of course, the combined threads of co-version, incompetence and greed were in fact the main blends within that cloth.

Cheers

Kim

[kiwigeo]

Apparently sales of semi automatic fire arms have sky rocketed.....for some reason people think they should be armed if Obama gets in as President. Same thing happened when Clinton got in.

[Paul B]

I hope all our yank friends are going to bloody well vote for somebody (except you McCain supporters <g>).

Over here voting is compulsory. It's not considered a right, it's a responsiblity. You get a $160 (?) fine in the mail if you don't vote.

Only problem is: 49% of any population is of below average inteligence, and that's not me being an asshole, that's just statistics. Throw in another couple % to represent your wankers/borderline stupid people/those with a vested interest, and the stupid people win the bloody thing! What a way to run a country. I guess that explains the Howard years. and more than half of our politicians.

[James Mc]

What you should never do is refuse to vote because they were all wankers, then write a note saying you are deceased and send it back with the fine. Makes it kind of hard to put in your tax return the next year (and OMG what a effort it was to become alive again when I needed to get a new passport). Guess that puts me in the 49%

[Paul B]

[Dennis Leahy]

If I lose my legs in the next few days, I will drag myself on bloody stumps to the voting booth. We have criminals in gray suits with American flag lapel pins running our country! Barack Obama certainly cannot "fix" America in 4 years, but McCain and the puppeteers that pull his strings sure as hell could break it much worse.

The National Rifle Association (NRA) is closely aligned with the Republican party, and every time any Democrat is up for high office, the malevolent Republican overlords rabble rouse the NRA members by telling them that they are about to lose their right to own 100 assault rifles and enough ammo to hold off the Chinese army (a God-given right, in some people's minds.) I saw an NRA billboard the other day, urging people to vote against Obama. Not for McCain, just against Obama.

Statistically, compared to all the other countries in the developed world, we have much more that 49% of our population that are stupid. In fact, the USA has the highest percentage of people in any developed country that believe that the Earth was created in seven days by a gray haired being floating on a cloud. Stupid people are easy to fool - they look at minor surface issues, and believe the non-issues are important due to media repetition, whether it makes any sense or not. Pavlovian response.

I'll give you an example: if those same dumb asses had a family member held hostage, they would want an elite sniper to take out the bad guy, and an elite team of rescue officers or soldiers to swoop in. Those same dumb asses respond negatively when choosing someone to run the country, because they are told that "elite" is a negative trait. Those same dumb asses sort of voted Bush in twice - sort of.

Another example: Republican political advisers and marketing teams getting crowds of ordinary middle-class and lower-middle-class citizens to boo when they are told that Obama wants to spread the wealth (to them!), and respond negatively to the now pejorative word "socialism" when the actual proposal is to reduce the taxes on them. Stupid all the way to the bone. No cure for that kind of stupid. Can't even educate them, because they need to drive over the bridge to the library - and bridges and libraries are owned by the citizens - thus socialist - so they can't avail themselves of those services.

Yeah, you'll see a very narrow margin of victory if Obama wins. And, if Dubya Bush could run again, the margin would be almost exactly the same - because these dumb asses already pledged their loyalty to the Reblican Party long ago.

Dennis

[joel]

This is a political discussion, Dennis, and not one of faith.

I am a creationist, and also possess an IQ that qualifies me for MENSA membership (or at least I did several beer drinking years ago!). I'm not just blowing my own trumpet here, but illustrating a point. Belief and intelligence are not directly proportional. Personally, I think that anyone who believes in evolution needs to have their head examined. Herein lies the beauty of democracy, we're all entitled to an opinion.

So, lets keep talking about the wonderful pair of US Presidential Candidates and how well the US economy is doing these days.

[Hesh1956]

Yep Dennis you have bigger low hangers than I do my friend taking on a "number" of issues all in one post. Kind of like in the film Godfather II when Michael settles all scores at once with the simultaneous killings of people on his shit list..... I love that movie.....

My prediction is that Obama will win by at least 7% and probably slightly more. After all he has the support of dead people, Starbucks, Jimmy Johns Sub shop, and all manner of entities that typically don't vote but seem to be voting, early in fact, this time........

The increase in gun ownership is interesting but I suspect that the motivation is blurred because there is another reason that might explain this - bank failures. I was present at a bank that had a run going on in real time and they were limiting how much you could take out to $1,000.

In an attempt to elevate this discussion to something less divisive something else that is on my mind is all of the concern of cheating during voting. This was the case in the last election here too but what is on my mind is that in all of the previous elections in my lifetime there was a perception that your vote was going to be handled honorably and correctly.

These days we have people watching people watch the poll workers etc. Voting fraud is rampant here in the US and folks are actually getting arrested for it too.

I like the idea of a mandatory vote and agree that it is a responsibility and also in my opinion my license to bitch. If I don't vote I can't bitch.

I agree that Obama can't fix everything in 4 years but he has promised to do many things in 4 years and we will just have to see how he does. he will likely have a majority in congress too, perhaps veto proof. But remember this is largely the same congress that has a lower approval rating than Bush.....

There is an expectation here that if, and I think that he will be, Obama is elected that he will in fact perform and accomplish many of the things that he has promised. Personally I don't want to hear that he is failing because Bush left everything FUBAR - Obama wants this job and has made the promises that he has made and every one knows in advance that things are probably worse than we have been led to believe.

So no excuses - if the country falls further apart in the next 4 years who are you going to blame? Bush again or is that story, though true, getting rather old?

I don't like Obama but if he is elected I do have an expectation that he will actually accomplish something on behalf of his country and mine. And I sincerely hope that he can accomplish something on behalf of all of us.

But.... I also will not be surprised in the least if things get worse here and Obama is not able to make any difference what so ever.

It's all pretty sad to me - no good choice for president this time. There is also the argument about how much change a president is actually capable of making - any president. Perhaps our system is so very toxic that a president can't change things at all.

We can only hope for the best - good luck to everyone.

[Dennis Leahy]

Joel, my apologies to you for using literal seven day creationism as a litmus test of the degree of stupidity of citizenry. You're correct - belief can (and does) supersede observed reality. Nor do I want to revisit the creationism subject (which has its own thread here) - I was simply attempting to quasi-humorously illustrate to Paul B that the USA has more stupid people per capita than any other developed country. Perhaps I should have picked another example, such as NASCAR - the obsession with watching cars drive quickly in a circle.

Oh, now I've done it! I've pissed off all the NASCAR fans too!

Hesh, yes, I would love to see the entire current US senate and house of representatives removed from office in one fell swoop. They, and the lobbyists, should all be banned from Washington forever. Indeed, I hate the two-Party system and hate the status quo of congressional politics (for example, attaching completely unrelated "pork" or riders to bills, making it impossible to know what these individuals are really voting for or against.) And, I'm not blind to the fact that the campaigns of candidates from both major Parties are typically financed by the same ultra-rich individuals and corporations - effectively buying them off before they step into their role as a "public servant."

But, I am a pragmatist. If you see the US as a floundering ship in an immense storm, with the passengers ready to select a new captain to grab the helm, it sure makes sense to cast a vote for the one potential captain that wants to aim the ship out of the storm.

Not admitting that Obama will be handed a horrific set of circumstances by the Bush/Cheney administration would be unfair, and Obama's accomplishments have to be measured against the depth of the hole on January 20th, 2009, to capture the big picture of what the Obama administration does or does not accomplish. Even so, it will be very easy to determine if indeed the ship is headed toward calmer waters, rather than circling around in the storm, NASCAR style.

Dennis

[Allen]

I was really quite amazed at the number of people that are standing in line for hours just to be able to cast a vote over the last week. Seems that there are an unprecedented number of people that want to have a say in this particular election.

I'm wondering if the "Average, Nascar fan, and lets not forget the Smack Down Wrestling fraternity" is aware of how low the USA has slipped in the view of the rest of the world?

If the next president does nothing other than bringing some integrity back to the office, and making the world a better place, then history will certainly look upon their time in office as a success.

[Hesh1956]

I was really quite amazed at the number of people that are standing in line for hours just to be able to cast a vote over the last week. Seems that there are an unprecedented number of people that want to have a say in this particular election.

I'm wondering if the "Average, Nascar fan, and lets not forget the Smack Down Wrestling fraternity" is aware of how low the USA has slipped in the view of the rest of the world?

If the next president does nothing other than bringing some integrity back to the office, and making the world a better place, then history will certainly look upon their time in office as a success.

What amazes me Allen my friend is how very interested folks all over the world are in American politics. I had no idea that you folks follow our elections to the extent that this and some other threads have shown me.

I think that most Americans are aware that worldwide approval of America and Americans suffered under the Bush administration. We had the world's good will after 9/11 and pissed it away with the adventure in Iraq.

But just like in OZ and everywhere else there are Americans who either are not aware of a world view of America or don't care. And they are not bad folks either, just not interested in foreign affairs/economics and/or just trying to get by and keep some beers in Le Fridge to enjoy while guitar building.

Don't take this the wrong way because it is an honest question but as to one of your possible goals for a new American administration "making the world a better place" how does one person, a president do this? This is no easy task though certainly a very worthy one.

Surely, and I am not calling you Shirley.... the next American president will be dealing with economic issues and economic issues alone promise to have some elements that would support the American economy that other nations are not going to appreciate......

This is what has me miffed at the current candidates, all of them, baseless promises and claims that are not easy to accomplish.

I mean I understand how folks are hopeful for the future but when you consider the likelihood of a world as described by the candidates how are they ever going to pull it off?

Now throw making the world a better place into the mix and you might just stress a man or woman out......

[sebastiaan56]

To dream the impossible dreammmmmmmmmm..
To fight the impossible foeeeeeeeeeee....
To bear the unbreable sorrowwwwwww....

It is a good point Hesh, but you guys might be surprised how much coverage the US gets here. Its really spooky sometimes.... you would think there is only one country

My brother has fled to Bali and his favourite TV station is Al Jazeera. He claims its unbiased and staffed by very HQ journalists. He was amazed at the bias in Aus TV.

[Allen]

Let's not forget Australia's biggest media mogul is now base in the good ole USA.

And as far as a new President having to deal with local issues that are going to have ramifications to the rest of the world that aren't going to be popular. What's new under the sun with that?

Take these free trade deals for instance. Even though it's marketed as being good for everyone, you'd be a complete fool to not realize that there is only one player that is coming out ahead.

Sure, there might be some small benefit in the short term for the smaller nation, but these deals have been set up with the big picture in mind. Get them hooked, and dependent, then turn up the pressure and change the rules if they don't comply. In Australia there are a few that come to mind. Therapeutic drugs, new media rules, and the one that really hit the head lines, Australian Wheat Board.

Sure, those fellows on the Wheat Board were corrupt, and then ended up taking the fall for a bunch of Politicians, but let's not forget that this whole system is corrupt and this practice was status quo for everyone. What the whole exercise did was to take out one of the USA's biggest competitors for it's wheat.

Having lived in Canada when that first Free Trade Deal went in, and seeing first hand how devastating it was to our economy and nation. It was sold to us as the cure to everything, but all that it did was sell out the country to multi national companies based in the US. And when the economy goes sour in the USA, its a really easy out to pitch to the American public that their problems are caused in no small part by the people across the border not playing by the rules. So to fix up the problem the USA just beats them with a very big stick until they submit.

When the economy took a dive in the 80's there was a big outcry from some key US states that the locals were out of work because of cheap wood from Canada. The US response was to slap on massive countervailing duties on Canadian wood, so it became obscenely expensive to send lumber across the boarder. This shut down logging and saw mills across the country. Canada won in the world court and monies were returned, but the effect was that sawmills became bankrupt, and easy targets to be bought up by US companies. Then rules were changed so that raw logs were allowed to be shipped across the boarder to US sawmills. The end result is that the US now has access to Canadian logs to feed it's sawmills and domestic market. No mention of cheap Canadian lumber now.

When we tossed out our Prime Minister and wiped his party off the political map, he ducked across the border and was installed onto every board of these very same major multi national corporations.

Now with Australia signed up to a Free Trade Deal, I can see the same insidious changes to the fundamentals of the way the system is run to protect a countries autonomy.

So, the long and short of it is that I will not be surprised one little bit if the next administration puts the screws to everyone that has signed up to a free trade deal in an effort to get the US people back on their feet.

[hilo_kawika]

I thought this article interesting...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/no ... -democrats

Dave Hurd

[Hesh1956]

Allen after some of the first free trade deals were signed between north American countries including Canada and the US (NAFTA) it was not unusual to see folks wearing T-shirts as below:

In Canada the T-shirt has a bald eagle humping a beaver.......

In the US the T-shirt has a beaver humping a bald eagle........

Hi Dave - good article and I believe this is what much of the world hopes for too. It's been pretty clear that Obama has star power that translates well on a global scale.

But this begs the question - would any of you want a guy like me, an American, having a vote in your national elections....? Hell here in the US they do all they can to not count my vote anyway........ I feel like changing my name to Chad......