Falcate Lite

[woodrat]

Hi Trevor, This thought has occurred to me after a discussion with a friend who suggested it, so I thought that I would put the question to you. We were talking about the possibilities of a Falcate bracing scheme but without the addition of the CF tow top and bottom i.e. a simpler version of the Falcate bracing scheme. I am gearing up for a full CF version myself but after said discussion I was wondering what the merits (or otherwise) of a Falcate Lite system may be. I understand that the height of the braces would have to be increased but in line with the cube rule they probably would not have to be double the height to achieve the same result. The extra wood would of course add extra mass which would be a consideration.
A lite version would take some of the complexity of construction away and may be advantageous for people with little experience with CF/Epoxy . I would like to know if you have built one or considered it as a possibility in the past but discounted it because of the extra mass or some other deleterious aspect.

Regards

John

[Trevor Gore]

A number of people have posed this question. The point about the CF is that it reduces cold creep. My thinking is that you would have to put a lot more wood in to get that benefit. Just compare the size of falcate braces to X braces, for example.

Using the CF is not that hard. As you already have a lot of experience building guitars I think you will find this to be only a little added complexity. Ultimately, if you stuff up the CF, you can whip it all off before it sets up, wash the top down with acetone and have another shot. (If you're not confident of the outcome, make sure you have appropriate PPE before you start!) IMO the hard bit for people trying this for the first time is making sure that the saddle ends up in the right place relative to the nut (as the bridge pin holes are drilled early in the piece if you're threading the braces between them).

So far, I've only had to "wash down" one brace, and that was when I was pushing my luck on a very hot day and the mix gelled on me. When working, make sure that you already have an escape plan in mind before you start - working in individual stages that can be aborted with minimal consequence.

As quite a few people have already built using this technique perhaps they could recount their experiences so we can get a handle on how easy/difficult people find it.

[Dominic]

John, I thought the use of cf was to avoid longer term creep of the braces. And to avoid this without cf the braces need to be made too stiff.
I am sure Trevor will chip in and confirm or deny though.
Dom

There you go, already beat me.

[Dominic]

Doing this sounds simple compared to making surfboards. Imagine spending all that time shaping a blank and then you have 12 minutes to mix, wet out and stick down around 1.5msq of glass matt on top, get all the air bubbles out and remove all excess resin so the matt does not float but not leave it too dry and full of air bubbles. And get it stuck down around the rails as well. And if you stuff up you can't get the stuff off again, your blank is headed for the bin. Now that is pressure. And the only way to learn is to do. The idea of having a second chance is a luxury I could not afford in those days. So you learn real quick or fail.
Anyway, go for it John, I am sure you will get it perfected in a couple of goes.
Good luck but keep us informed how it goes.
Dom

[woodrat]

Thanks Trevor, Yes I already have had to do a backing out maneuver and an acetone washdown but I dont think that I had the right CF tow. I have some more coming that is different and should be easier to handle courtesy of Paul/Ozwood. The stuff I got fluffed up and was unruly and unmanageable. I will get back on the horse when the new CF comes and give it another go.

Thanks

John

[woodrat]

Thanks Dom, Your comparison with the surf board is very valid and puts the complexity issue into perspective.

John

[Dominic]

Both jobs are the kind where you have to just do it to learn and the fear of stuffing up means it can be quite stressful. But I do enjoy that process of learning and refining the way it is done, so as to achieve neat results. Thats for anything from jointing plates to carving the neck or laying out CF. Once that skill sticks and you can do it quickly and accurately and not get stressed its a bit of a buzz.
Anyway John, look forward to seeing a couple of your guitars in coming weeks.
Cheers
Dom

[woodrat]

Both jobs are the kind where you have to just do it to learn and the fear of stuffing up means it can be quite stressful. But I do enjoy that process of learning and refining the way it is done, so as to achieve neat results. Thats for anything from jointing plates to carving the neck or laying out CF. Once that skill sticks and you can do it quickly and accurately and not get stressed its a bit of a buzz.
Anyway John, look forward to seeing a couple of your guitars in coming weeks.
Cheers
Dom

Thanks Dom for the words of wisdom....I have found that to be true...the fear of stuffing up...Ive done a few (stuff ups that is) but I am glad to say that I have just completed my first falcate with full CF treatment and although it was stressful with a couple of aborted attempts I have one playing now and I am not scared anymore. I just need to refine my technique to make the whole thing less messy which will come with practice I am sure. I think that the bracing system is superior to x bracing and brings us into the 21st century with a better design made possible by modern materials as well as, of course, Trevor not hiding his light under a bushel but making it widely available.

Regards

John