Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build
Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build
Don't I know it, Allen!
I'm already a heretic, this'll have them mobbing in the streets, crying out to 'burn him at the stake along with his abominations'.
Charlie, I used to sleep when the US sleeps.
I spent the first years of my life living in Boston, asking for a 'cookie', eating pb&jelly, and taking my first steps on the grass in front of the white house.
Maybe that's what's wrong with me.
And thanks for mentioning my name in the same paragraph as Masters Hurd & Motolla.
Hardly deserved & humbling- I'm only following the information in the Gore/Gilet books.
All credit is due to them.
I'm already a heretic, this'll have them mobbing in the streets, crying out to 'burn him at the stake along with his abominations'.
Charlie, I used to sleep when the US sleeps.
I spent the first years of my life living in Boston, asking for a 'cookie', eating pb&jelly, and taking my first steps on the grass in front of the white house.
Maybe that's what's wrong with me.
And thanks for mentioning my name in the same paragraph as Masters Hurd & Motolla.
Hardly deserved & humbling- I'm only following the information in the Gore/Gilet books.
All credit is due to them.
Craig
I'm not the sharpest tool in my shed
I'm not the sharpest tool in my shed
Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build
Those Gore and Gilet characters have alot to answer for
Martin
Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build
Craig
Why is the mount on the back upside down
and is the positioning of this mount critical?
Bruce
Why is the mount on the back upside down
and is the positioning of this mount critical?
Bruce
Bruce Mc.
Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build
Oh damn, & I've gone and put the top on already!afshar wrote:Why is the mount on the back upside down
and is the positioning of this mount critical?
I need to check these things more carefully in future.
Oh well, it's inside, no one will notice.
Just one other thing to note - I used oversized (for a uke) reverse kerfed linings for a high impedance mismatch between top & sides. (Didn't need them at the back, but had made plenty so....)
Craig
I'm not the sharpest tool in my shed
I'm not the sharpest tool in my shed
Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build
This is a fascinating build, and I'll be interested to see how it turns out.
Although I'm the veriest amateur uke maker I am a researcher by trade, so I've read widely about traditional uke making (not the Gore Gilet book, though, I'm too amateur to justify the cost). That tells me the conventional wisdom, derived from lots of ukes built over the years. This is that the smaller the uke, the less stiff it should be: for a soprano as little bracing and lining as can be got away with. When playing, you should feel back and sides vibrating away. But that could all be mistaken.
This build goes in entirely the opposite direction: lots of stiffness and careful control of vibration. Hmm.
My guess at this stage is that it will produce an instrument which is good and loud and has fine tone and sustain. But I also guess that it will sound like a small guitar, rather than what I think a uke should sound like. But then, I haven't heard a spruce uke that didn't sound like a small guitar.
Is the aim that it should sound like ukes sound, but better? Or is the aim that it should be better in some other respect, and if so what? It might be worth thinking about these, because without a clear aim this won't demonstrate anything other than that these techniques can be used to build a musical instrument at a smaller scale.
Although I'm the veriest amateur uke maker I am a researcher by trade, so I've read widely about traditional uke making (not the Gore Gilet book, though, I'm too amateur to justify the cost). That tells me the conventional wisdom, derived from lots of ukes built over the years. This is that the smaller the uke, the less stiff it should be: for a soprano as little bracing and lining as can be got away with. When playing, you should feel back and sides vibrating away. But that could all be mistaken.
This build goes in entirely the opposite direction: lots of stiffness and careful control of vibration. Hmm.
My guess at this stage is that it will produce an instrument which is good and loud and has fine tone and sustain. But I also guess that it will sound like a small guitar, rather than what I think a uke should sound like. But then, I haven't heard a spruce uke that didn't sound like a small guitar.
Is the aim that it should sound like ukes sound, but better? Or is the aim that it should be better in some other respect, and if so what? It might be worth thinking about these, because without a clear aim this won't demonstrate anything other than that these techniques can be used to build a musical instrument at a smaller scale.
Chris Reed
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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build
Craig, You may not need to get your fingers in there, for a soundboard of that area,you possibly have already added the mass
Tod
Music is everyone's posession. It's only publishers who think that people own it.
John Lennon
Music is everyone's posession. It's only publishers who think that people own it.
John Lennon
Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build
Hi Chris,
Look, the Gore/Gilet books are not directly about uke making.
Trevor Gore has mentioned in this thread (several times ) that he knows nothing about the things.
I'm just building this as an exploration for me of applying these new methods of build & analysis.
There's more to this than just the bracing, and even with that I may have got it very, very wrong.
Already, having got something physical now to bend & flex, I'm inclined to re-visit Jeremy's thoughts of discarding the secondary braces - despite my previous statements.
And while this thread is just to share these little discoveries with others, to really understand why I'm doing these things you need to have read the background stuff.
And if I do end up with a loud, crisp, bright little uke....well I guess I could live with that.
Tod - that's why I weighed them before I glued them in.
Is this in itself such a bad thing?because without a clear aim this won't demonstrate anything other than that these techniques can be used to build a musical instrument at a smaller scale.
Look, the Gore/Gilet books are not directly about uke making.
Trevor Gore has mentioned in this thread (several times ) that he knows nothing about the things.
I'm just building this as an exploration for me of applying these new methods of build & analysis.
There's more to this than just the bracing, and even with that I may have got it very, very wrong.
Already, having got something physical now to bend & flex, I'm inclined to re-visit Jeremy's thoughts of discarding the secondary braces - despite my previous statements.
And while this thread is just to share these little discoveries with others, to really understand why I'm doing these things you need to have read the background stuff.
And if I do end up with a loud, crisp, bright little uke....well I guess I could live with that.
Tod - that's why I weighed them before I glued them in.
Craig
I'm not the sharpest tool in my shed
I'm not the sharpest tool in my shed
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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build
I have a scrap box labelled "guitar" at the back of the shed.endgrained wrote: Come on, all of you guitar only builders have a scrap box labelled "ukulele" in the back of the shed!
Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build
Oh no, not in the least. That's the kind of inquiring mind I like (unless it's a child with matches and petrol thinking, "I wonder ...").Clancy wrote:Hi Chris,Is this in itself such a bad thing?because without a clear aim this won't demonstrate anything other than that these techniques can be used to build a musical instrument at a smaller scale.
I'd somehow got the impression that you also wanted to test whether this construction method was better, in some way, and so was asking what the test for "better" was.
Definitely a win if you do! Particularly if this new bracing system puts a bit more colour and oomph into spruce.And if I do end up with a loud, crisp, bright little uke....well I guess I could live with that.
I'll be watching with interest to see how you get on.
Chris Reed
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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build
My billets that are too thin to carve charango bodies end up in my scrap box labelled "double basses".matthew wrote:I have a scrap box labelled "guitar" at the back of the shed.endgrained wrote: Come on, all of you guitar only builders have a scrap box labelled "ukulele" in the back of the shed!
Nice food chain, isn't it?
Markus
To be stupid is like to be dead. Oneself will not be aware of it.
It's only the others who suffer.
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It's only the others who suffer.
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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build
Mmmm I use charango bodies as cleats for crack repair. How much for the box?charangohabsburg wrote:My billets that are too thin to carve charango bodies end up in my scrap box labelled "double basses".
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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build
matthew wrote:Mmmm I use charango bodies as cleats for crack repair. How much for the box?charangohabsburg wrote:My billets that are too thin to carve charango bodies end up in my scrap box labelled "double basses".
Good one Matthew!
John
"It's never too late to be what you might have been " - George Eliot
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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build
If you pick them up at my home you can have some boxes of charango blanks for free but you must take the scrap box too.matthew wrote:Mmmm I use charango bodies as cleats for crack repair. How much for the box?charangohabsburg wrote:My billets that are too thin to carve charango bodies end up in my scrap box labelled "double basses".
Markus
To be stupid is like to be dead. Oneself will not be aware of it.
It's only the others who suffer.
To be stupid is like to be dead. Oneself will not be aware of it.
It's only the others who suffer.
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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build
Must admit, you double basses are big.matthew wrote:Mmmm I use charango bodies as cleats for crack repair. How much for the box?
This is a charango (if you didn't know):
Markus
To be stupid is like to be dead. Oneself will not be aware of it.
It's only the others who suffer.
To be stupid is like to be dead. Oneself will not be aware of it.
It's only the others who suffer.
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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build
Ah ... I always suspected a Charango is an unplayable instrument.
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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build
Not less playable than the octobass: click.matthew wrote:Ah ... I always suspected a Charango is an unplayable instrument.
P.S.
Sorry Craig for hijacking your thread.
Markus
To be stupid is like to be dead. Oneself will not be aware of it.
It's only the others who suffer.
To be stupid is like to be dead. Oneself will not be aware of it.
It's only the others who suffer.
Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build
Hey Craig, I saw above you were wondering if you needed a bridge patch. I have not used one on any of the classical guitars I have made. Romanillos experimented with this and came to the conclusion one was not needed on a classical. He argues they just introduce a great amount of stress on the soundboard when humidity changes because it is glued on cross grain. And he has found no acoustic or structural benefit to having one. He also notes that Torres never used one.
I suspect therefore there is even less need for one on a uke.
Pretty high tech uke, are you gonna sell it for enough to justify the additional effort? Its only natural for me to reduce these ideas into economics and productivity. We have to ensure our marginal product of labour is at least slightly positive, enough so we can live in the lap of abject poverty but not a cent less!!!. "How good have all the musos got it these days", I saw someone mention and its true.
Cheers
Dom.
I suspect therefore there is even less need for one on a uke.
Pretty high tech uke, are you gonna sell it for enough to justify the additional effort? Its only natural for me to reduce these ideas into economics and productivity. We have to ensure our marginal product of labour is at least slightly positive, enough so we can live in the lap of abject poverty but not a cent less!!!. "How good have all the musos got it these days", I saw someone mention and its true.
Cheers
Dom.
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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build
Hi Craig.
Encouraging comments from Trev on the uke in the thread from the course!
Do you have any further details on the build as yet? What results did some of the tests you ran it through show? Very interested to hear more details.
I'm a little remiss to post on the UU to enquire...
Jeremy.
Encouraging comments from Trev on the uke in the thread from the course!
Do you have any further details on the build as yet? What results did some of the tests you ran it through show? Very interested to hear more details.
I'm a little remiss to post on the UU to enquire...
Jeremy.
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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build
From what I've read on that thread, asking how it's going/sounding would just about be tantamount to a shooting offence wouldn't it Jeremy? .J.F. Custom wrote:I'm a little remiss to post on the UU to enquire...
Jeremy.
Those boys sure take this Uke biz seriously!
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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build
Hey guys.
I'm writing this from work on my mobile phone.
I won't finish work till after midnight, then off to work again in the morning.
So I won't be able to post the results from the tests till the weekend.
Sorry.
I'm writing this from work on my mobile phone.
I won't finish work till after midnight, then off to work again in the morning.
So I won't be able to post the results from the tests till the weekend.
Sorry.
Craig
I'm not the sharpest tool in my shed
I'm not the sharpest tool in my shed
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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build
Tsk tsk tsk...Clancy wrote:Hey guys.
I'm writing this from work on my mobile phone.
I won't finish work till after midnight, then off to work again in the morning.
So I won't be able to post the results from the tests till the weekend.
Sorry.
Where are your priorities Mr Clancy ?
Jeremy.
Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build
Ok, ok. I got home early so here you go.
Built & bound, but no bridge yet.
T(1,1)1 @ 195Hz
T(1,1)2 @ 361Hz
T(1,1)3 @ 455Hz
T(2,1) @ 521 Hz
Hopefully I can repeat it all when the bridge on & see what change occurs.
I'm keen to add side mass (if I can) and see if I can get the monopole mode closer to the edge.
The added weight may, of course, make the instrument way too heavy for general acceptance - but this is fun!
Built & bound, but no bridge yet.
T(1,1)1 @ 195Hz
T(1,1)2 @ 361Hz
T(1,1)3 @ 455Hz
T(2,1) @ 521 Hz
Hopefully I can repeat it all when the bridge on & see what change occurs.
I'm keen to add side mass (if I can) and see if I can get the monopole mode closer to the edge.
The added weight may, of course, make the instrument way too heavy for general acceptance - but this is fun!
Craig
I'm not the sharpest tool in my shed
I'm not the sharpest tool in my shed
Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build
Has the sky fallen down yet?
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Re: Gore/Gilet/ Concepts & Falcate Bracing in a Uke Build
err... right into the sound hole.
Fine classical and steel string guitars
Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.
Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.
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