Using Abalone
Using Abalone
Forgive me if this is too basic a question but I am trying to use abalone for a rosette for the first time.
I had to throw my first top out due to a mistake with the (falcate) bracing and didn't that hurt, but I had inlaid a layer of shell with a couple of purfling lines round it for the rosette and when I came to levelling the shell it did not like being scraped at all. There was crumbling and breaking up and that lovely gloss over the figure was lost.
So do we have to get the shell inlay to exactly match the final surface of the top? Or is there a way of thinning it down, maybe with fine abrasives?
And a follow up: how do we deal with the ineveitable small gaps? CA glue? So we have to flood with shellac first so as to not stain the spruce?
Confused of Somerset!
And it is a most beautiful Paua from your part of the world so I reckon you all should know...
I had to throw my first top out due to a mistake with the (falcate) bracing and didn't that hurt, but I had inlaid a layer of shell with a couple of purfling lines round it for the rosette and when I came to levelling the shell it did not like being scraped at all. There was crumbling and breaking up and that lovely gloss over the figure was lost.
So do we have to get the shell inlay to exactly match the final surface of the top? Or is there a way of thinning it down, maybe with fine abrasives?
And a follow up: how do we deal with the ineveitable small gaps? CA glue? So we have to flood with shellac first so as to not stain the spruce?
Confused of Somerset!
And it is a most beautiful Paua from your part of the world so I reckon you all should know...
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Dave
Dave
Re: Using Abalone
I use my StewMac fret leveling files to knock it down to the surface. Hard sanding block with sandpaper will also take it down.
Yes, thin CA will fill any small gaps.
Yes, thin CA will fill any small gaps.
Re: Using Abalone
I used abalone on two of my early builds. I inlaid the pieces so they were 1-2mm proud of the top and then just sanded back. Abalone isn't that hard...it's basically calcium carbonate. On the Mohs Hardness Scale it's about 3-4 which isn't that hard. It'll work easily with moderate grit sandpaper.
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- Steve.Toscano
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Re: Using Abalone
I dont use it much myself, but a lot of my students do.
I get them to cut the channel so the shell is just proud of the top. Talking less then a quarter a mm.
Then sand it down by hand useing a hard block. Not much too it, takes a student about 10mins to sand it flat and remove any excess glue.
I get them to use fish glue to glue in the shell pieces. So any gaps will be filled by the glue when installed. I prefer fish glue over CA, as it has a longer opening time for setting up intricate pieces, is tacky, dries somewhat clear, and doesn't stain spruce. Yet still adheres well to shell.
CA would also work as a post install gap filler, but yes, will need to seal the spruce with shellac first.
When sanding shell make sure to wear the usual respiratory protection, the dust is a nightmare.
Last edited by Steve.Toscano on Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Using Abalone
It also helps to know if you are using solid Paua shell or laminate, the laminate is built up from .15mm thickness cuts and then glued together, so this may be the cause of your crumbling, solid shell sands really easy.
Also laminates are not the same between manufacturers, I have one sheet of MOP from one manufacturer which sands beautifully but at 1.5mm thickness it costs me 400 dollars for sheet, another manufacturer from Korea sold me some of theirs and it’s also 1.5mm thick laminate at a cost of 80 dollars a sheet, but it’s pretty average (using kind words here)
The alternative is to use super thin shell and sit it below the surface and pore fill over the top, this allows you to get a high glosss finish to the shell area
Steve
Also laminates are not the same between manufacturers, I have one sheet of MOP from one manufacturer which sands beautifully but at 1.5mm thickness it costs me 400 dollars for sheet, another manufacturer from Korea sold me some of theirs and it’s also 1.5mm thick laminate at a cost of 80 dollars a sheet, but it’s pretty average (using kind words here)
The alternative is to use super thin shell and sit it below the surface and pore fill over the top, this allows you to get a high glosss finish to the shell area
Steve
Re: Using Abalone
This is .15mm shell with clear fill over the top, no sanding
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Steve
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Steve
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Re: Using Abalone
That's a great tip Steve, I'm about to inlay a shell piece I've had engraved and I've been worried about sanding it in case I lose the engraving. What do you use to pour fill over it? This is a new guitar so will be going into raw timber. Wayne
Re: Using Abalone
Whatever finish the Guitar is, I simply drip fill the finish in and then scrape it to height, possibly better ways of doing it, but I try not to make it to complicated for myself.
Steve
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Re: Using Abalone
Thanks Steve, i'll be using lacquer on it, might try it out on a little bit of scrap first, thanks for the reply. Wayne
Re: Using Abalone
I have been unable to log in for a while so thanks to everyone for the advice. In the meantime my second go has been much better. After sanding the shell is a little dull, but I imagine the finish will bring that back up.
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Dave
Dave
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Re: Using Abalone
It should, yes, ensure you sand the shell to a high grit. Typically 800 is enough.
You can do this in your finish prep stage.
You can do this in your finish prep stage.
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Re: Using Abalone
Dave, if you're having trouble with scraping, the alternatives are filing, hard block sanding, or a thickness sander, if you have one. Gerard would just put the top with inlaid rosette straight through his wide belt sander. That leveled it!Dave M wrote: ↑Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:27 amSo do we have to get the shell inlay to exactly match the final surface of the top? Or is there a way of thinning it down, maybe with fine abrasives?
And a follow up: how do we deal with the ineveitable small gaps? CA glue? So we have to flood with shellac first so as to not stain the spruce?
Confused of Somerset!
However, it is best to inlay as close to flush as you can, the reason being that if you have matched colours/patterns between solid shell segments, that matching disappears if you take off more than ~ 0.1mm.
Regarding gaps, they are not inevitable. Individually fit the ends of segments and keep the amount of glue under control so you can be sure you can see that the butt joint is tight. One advantage of assembling rosettes off the guitar (as shown in the book) is that if you don't like the result it's pretty easy to redo. Re-doing an inlay direct into a top can be done, but there is much more risk of things going wrong.
If you glue up initially with Titebond, any tiny gaps (typically between the shell and purfling) can be filled with CA glue. The Titebond should have sealed all the end grain, so you don't get any green stains.
Any residual sanding scratches from grits 400 and higher become invisible under a finish.
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Re: Using Abalone
Again thanks. I didn't get the depth of groove as close as I meant to but hard block sanding as Trevor suggested did the trick. I will take it to a finer grit as suggested.
It is NZ Paua. Real fancy looking stuff isn't it? It wouldn't do to use too much of it unless you are going for a real bling model.
It is NZ Paua. Real fancy looking stuff isn't it? It wouldn't do to use too much of it unless you are going for a real bling model.
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Dave
Dave
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Re: Using Abalone
I use solid Paua Abalone and glue the strips in with CA glue. Some woods will stain with CA, so try on scrap first. Myrtle, Qld Maple, NSW Rosewood, Huon Pine which is what I have used so far are all ok. One wood stained badly, can't remember what it was, but I think it was Sassafras so bad idea to use CA on Sassafras. The CA fills all the little gaps nicely. The top is left thicker than final thickness. Once the CA is dry, put it through the drum sander and bring the top down to final thickness. So similar to what Gerard did. As Trevor said, that levels it. Also as Trevor said, try to get the shell as level as possible and take off the minimal amount necessary or else matched joins will start to show. If the top is still too thick, flip it over and sand the back. Final sanding is down to 400, and any scratches disappear under finish.
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Re: Using Abalone
I inlaid the piece of engraved mop, I kept it just below the surface and filled over it and it worked out great, thanks for that tip Steve, I still have another one to do.
Wayne
Wayne
Re: Using Abalone
Your welcome, also what a collective of information being given, I too have learnt some stuff following this thread.
I like to use steel wool to return the luster of shell, that being said final sanding with an appropriate grade is just as important as well.
One of the bigger issues I see with my shell work is I use laminated shell 1.5mm thick, each shell layer is .15mm so when you sand to shape you get some ripple looks to the shell which is from sanding through the layers.
Steve
I like to use steel wool to return the luster of shell, that being said final sanding with an appropriate grade is just as important as well.
One of the bigger issues I see with my shell work is I use laminated shell 1.5mm thick, each shell layer is .15mm so when you sand to shape you get some ripple looks to the shell which is from sanding through the layers.
Steve
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