Jointrookie Whimsy T1

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vikingcode
Gidgee
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Jointrookie Whimsy T1

Post by vikingcode » Tue May 27, 2014 10:01 pm

Hello all,

I'm a relatively newbie to the world of woodworking, picking up the hobby last year. I am not a luthier, but I am from Australia, so thats half the qualifications for the forum, right?

Diving into the vast amount of content online, youtube in particular, eventually I stumbled across the Jointmaker Pro and then laughed heartily when I saw the money they wanted to charge for it. It was something I really badly wanted, but not at that expense. Eventually I stumbled across Marcus' (charangohabsburg) Jointapprentice Hobby A1 that he made a few years back.

I've now developed my skills enough that I could actually build that! Speaking with Marcus about it though, he didn't have any plans drawn up. I've decided that I will draw up some plans (sketchup) and make those freely available once I've finished the build (can't have anybody beating me to the punch! or more accurately, things might change as I break/fail).

Once all said and done, there will be a build video on my youtube channel, but for now bear with me as I spam a build log at you!

Jointrookie Whimsy T1

Image

I'm going to do a few things a little different from Marcus - I'm opting for an 'easier' table build by going for the more expensive option, steel shaft with linear, rather than drawer slides. This is a personal preference, but a secret reason is that eventually I may build a CNC router and getting to play with those sorts of parts is a good excuse.

Secondly looking at the 'height limitation' of the Jointapprentice, I'm going for gears to lower/raise the blade assembly. I'm benefiting from Marcus' research where he found the patents that show how the JMP uses gears for that. I think the wedge system is the cause of the limitation, and a steeper angle or much longer wedge is needed to increase the vertical travel (somebody correct me on this one!).

Parts
Other than screws, bolts, threaded rod, glue, MDF, ply and hardwood (tas oak is suitable, although if I find jarrah/blackwood offcuts the right size they'll make it in), below is the proposed parts list

2 x 16mm x 700mm hardened chromed shaft
4 x SC16UU linear bearings with pillowblock housing. I would have gone for just the bearings, LM16UU, but the same store had both the shaft and ONLY those bearings.
1 x Razorsaw Kataba 06 Super-Hard 240mm. I already had/have this, as its the brand of dozuki/kataba/ryoba that I use. Saves me from waiting for it from japan.
1 x nylon chopping board (used, but clean) for gears

Without a doubt, the bearings and hardened rod are the most expensive part, but when you consider to get the JMP to Australia including a fence (because why bother otherwise?) you're looking at over $2900 (US->AUD+Shipping), I don't mind spending ~$70 on "better than Bunnings draw slides".

Approach
The way I see it, this project can be broken down into two main parts, the blade assembly and "everything else". Naturally - for me - I'm going to start this the wrong way around and tomorrow I'm going to whip up a very basic table and "carcass" to house it all in. I'm probably not able to get to the finer details until next week, so chopping up some chipboard and painted MDF that is already on the "to bin pile" and adding some 16mm holes isn't going to be too stressful!

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charangohabsburg
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Re: Jointrookie Whimsy T1

Post by charangohabsburg » Wed May 28, 2014 4:55 am

Hi Paul,
After being in contact with you via PM I'm glad to see you now also on the forum. Welcome!
vikingcode wrote: [...] eventually I stumbled across the Jointmaker Pro and then laughed heartily when I saw the money they wanted to charge for it. It was something I really badly wanted, but not at that expense.
Once you'll have finished your rookie you'll be surprised how low your hourly wage would have been If you had only 1700 US$ on hand to pay your own work (1700 $ is the approximate cost of JMP incl. shipping around the globe and taxes). But of course, nothing can pay the fun of making one's own tools.
vikingcode wrote: [...] Secondly looking at the 'height limitation' of the Jointapprentice, I'm going for gears to lower/raise the blade assembly. I'm benefiting from Marcus' research where he found the patents that show how the JMP uses gears for that.
Well, for the benefit of all, let's publish the link to the patent with all the drawings right here:

http://www.google.com/patents/US20110000353?hl=es&dq=ininventor:John+ininventor:Economaki

I'd like to point out that patents generally should not and do not contain any kind of copyrighted pictures or text. If in some very seldom cases they can't be avoided they have to be labeled as such. Like in most patents, also in the one of the Jointmaker Pro all drawings are public domain. I'm saying this because Mr. Economaki in some occasion told people that his patented designs were copyrighted, which can not be the case, as this clearly would defeat the purpose of patents. Just saying.
vikingcode wrote: [...] I think the wedge system is the cause of the limitation, and a steeper angle or much longer wedge is needed to increase the vertical travel (somebody correct me on this one!).
No, the wedge has nothing to do with it. If you want make deeper cuts than I can do with the Jointapprentice you can use a longer blade (if you find one), and/or a wider blade (also given the case you can find one.
Have a look at how a Kataba blade compares to the Jointmaker blade:

Image

Then, you can also get a few extra millimeters (maybe 6 or 8mm) by using a metal table instead of a wooden one, and another 5 or 6mm by using metal parts instead of MDF for the blade guide. But then, if you use metal you can not use magnets to hold the wedge down, but you could use springs instead (which of course can complicate things again).

If you haven't done it yet, don't forget to check out Pete Howlett's approach I mentioned and have linked to in the first post of the Jointapprentice thread you have linked to. Pete used 30mm rods with linear bearings. Have a look at how he attached the rods in a very sturdy way to the base board. I think the box you pictured here will nor be sturdy enough if you plan to make it of wood (be it MDF or plywood). I think you really need to support the rods at each end over a length of at least 40 mm if the rods get supported by any kind of wood and not metal. The main benefit of using MDF instead of aluminium is noise reduction. It really makes a great difference.

I wish you good luck and a lot of fun, keep us updated about the progress you make!

Cheers,
Markus

To be stupid is like to be dead. Oneself will not be aware of it.
It's only the others who suffer.

vikingcode
Gidgee
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 6:47 pm

Re: Jointrookie Whimsy T1

Post by vikingcode » Wed May 28, 2014 6:31 am

charangohabsburg wrote: Once you'll have finished your rookie you'll be surprised how low your hourly wage would have been If you had only 1700 US$ on hand to pay your own work (1700 $ is the approximate cost of JMP incl. shipping around the globe and taxes). But of course, nothing can pay the fun of making one's own tools.
Without getting into it too much, *all* of BCT products are (IMO) overpriced (and in some cases like their planes overengineered). I think its a bit of a chicken and egg situation - the easiest way to get prices down is to do so in volume, if it costs you $x to turn on the machine to make the parts and you're only making a limited batch of 5, prices are going to be crazy high.

They're not "alone" in that - Woodpeckers suffers from similar high pricing on many of their items, but they highlight the fact by calling them "one time tools".
No, the wedge has nothing to do with it. If you want make deeper cuts than I can do with the Jointapprentice you can use a longer blade (if you find one), and/or a wider blade (also given the case you can find one.

Then, you can also get a few extra millimeters (maybe 6 or 8mm) by using a metal table instead of a wooden one, and another 5 or 6mm by using metal parts instead of MDF for the blade guide. But then, if you use metal you can not use magnets to hold the wedge down, but you could use springs instead (which of course can complicate things again).
I'm pretty sure I did warn you I wasn't the smartest cookie in the jar! :lol:
If you haven't done it yet, don't forget to check out Pete Howlett's approach I mentioned and have linked to in the first post of the Jointapprentice thread you have linked to.
It looks like Pete had a video (or two?) on it, but thats been taken offline. I can't seem to find any more info (photos/description, etc) than that :(
. I think the box you pictured here will nor be sturdy enough if you plan to make it of wood (be it MDF or plywood). I think you really need to support the rods at each end over a length of at least 40 mm if the rods get supported by any kind of wood and not metal.
Good to know, I'll gang some of the scraps I've got together today and prototype that out.

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charangohabsburg
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Re: Jointrookie Whimsy T1

Post by charangohabsburg » Wed May 28, 2014 10:46 am

vikingcode wrote:Without getting into it too much, *all* of BCT products are (IMO) overpriced (and in some cases like their planes overengineered). I think its a bit of a chicken and egg situation - the easiest way to get prices down is to do so in volume, if it costs you $x to turn on the machine to make the parts and you're only making a limited batch of 5, prices are going to be crazy high.
Oh, I think they make batches of more than fife. :lol:
Their stuff would be overpriced if nobody, or almost nobody would buy it, which does not seem to be the case. They are constantly sold out on almost everything they make, and nobody gets forced to buy their stuff.
vikingcode wrote:They're not "alone" in that - Woodpeckers suffers from similar high pricing on many of their items, but they highlight the fact by calling them "one time tools".
Looking for an expensive handplane? There are more expensive ones out there, but I can't find them right now.
vikingcode wrote:It looks like Pete had a video (or two?) on it, but thats been taken offline. I can't seem to find any more info (photos/description, etc) than that :(
Indeed, too bad. He seems to have purged everything that has nothing to do with a specific uke of his production off his YT channel. But then, I have the bad habit to download to my harddisk almost all things I find really useful or interesting. No need to re-post the two videos, this screenshot shows all I was referring to:

Image

The white text is Pete's, I only added the red text as one never knows what people are doing with pictures they find "on the Internet".
Markus

To be stupid is like to be dead. Oneself will not be aware of it.
It's only the others who suffer.

vikingcode
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Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 6:47 pm

Re: Jointrookie Whimsy T1

Post by vikingcode » Wed May 28, 2014 1:22 pm

Looking for an expensive handplane? There are more expensive ones out there, but I can't find them right now.
What, like Bridge City Tools rabbet plane? ;)
No need to re-post the two videos, this screenshot shows all I was referring to
Looks like Pete used SK16's (well, SK30) to mount it to the base. I've been able to get a good friction fit from just a 16mm spade bit, but not good enough. Thankfully making wooden "SK16 style" mounts is easy.

Image
As a prototype out of pallet (yuck) wood, that'll work. Now that I know this tightens up to an awesome grip, I'll remake it in oak. I'll still drill holes in the frame to align it, then the mounts will lock it down further.

Image
This is sitting on top of my tablesaws crosscut sled, so that extra ply below is not part of it just yet. No discernible flex in anything but the table, but considering its only mounted to two of four mounting blocks, that flex is just "forwards". Glides like butter.

Onto stage two, migraine! Wait :/

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charangohabsburg
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Re: Jointrookie Whimsy T1

Post by charangohabsburg » Wed May 28, 2014 9:14 pm

Nice. Keep it coming.
vikingcode wrote:
Looking for an expensive handplane? There are more expensive ones out there, but I can't find them right now.
What, like Bridge City Tools rabbet plane? ;)
Well, this one is milled from a solid block of stainless steel. A bargain for what it is. All those expensive planes comply in one or the other way with "Rolls Royce standards".
Markus

To be stupid is like to be dead. Oneself will not be aware of it.
It's only the others who suffer.

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