Bolt on bolt off neck - order of operations

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Richardl
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Re: Bolt on bolt off neck - order of operations

Post by Richardl » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:01 pm

Hi Martin. The fret board is already tapered so a little trickier to align with a router. The other option is to mount the nut directly on the neck, but I like the idea of a ledge. I might forget about the compensated nut on this one. It's really a trial to see if I can get close to mastering the techniques which are a little more involved than my first guitar.
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Richard

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Re: Bolt on bolt off neck - order of operations

Post by kiwigeo » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:30 pm

If the fret board is tapered it won't be an issue as on a router table you're registering the end of the fretboard against the fence. That said it's best to have a bit of meat either side of the final fretboard edge to allow for break out from the nut ledge routing operation. It can still be done though...just temporarily glue some sacrificial scrap wood to the sides of the fretboard at nut end...the scrap wood will break out instead of the fretboard.
Richardl wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:01 pm
Hi Martin. The fret board is already tapered so a little trickier to align with a router. The other option is to mount the nut directly on the neck, but I like the idea of a ledge. I might forget about the compensated nut on this one. It's really a trial to see if I can get close to mastering the techniques which are a little more involved than my first guitar.
Cheers
Richard
Martin

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Re: Bolt on bolt off neck - order of operations

Post by Richardl » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:35 pm

Ah, OK, thanks. I get it now. Can you confirm that the fretboard is 6.5 mm thick and I have interpreted figure 18.39 correctly (i.e. it refers to the thickness of the edge of the fret board not the centre-as it's stated as 5 mm thick).

Thanks

Richard

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Re: Bolt on bolt off neck - order of operations

Post by Trevor Gore » Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:36 pm

Richardl wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:12 am
I still can't say I completely understand the way the geometry is arrived at as the angle of the heel block must change as it is shaped and contoured due to the undercut, as you mention, so the initial adjustment of the heel block will be undone after carving. That's something for me to ponder and understand. But I like the removable neck concept and it looks like a really solid joint!
See last paragraph P 14.9 and penultimate paragraph P14-20, which explain the rationale.
Richardl wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:12 am
Next question (sorry) is: the finger board is referred to as 6.5 mm thick. Just wanted to clarify that figure 18.39 refers to the thickness of the edge of the fret board not the centre (as it's stated as 5 mm thick).
Refers to the edge of the fretboard; 5mm at fret 1 and 4.5mm at fret 8.

I think Martin covered the rest (Thanks, Martin!).

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Re: Bolt on bolt off neck - order of operations

Post by Richardl » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:05 pm

Trevor Gore wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:36 pm
Richardl wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:12 am
I still can't say I completely understand the way the geometry is arrived at as the angle of the heel block must change as it is shaped and contoured due to the undercut, as you mention, so the initial adjustment of the heel block will be undone after carving. That's something for me to ponder and understand. But I like the removable neck concept and it looks like a really solid joint!
See last paragraph P 14.9 and penultimate paragraph P14-20, which explain the rationale.
Richardl wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:12 am
Next question (sorry) is: the finger board is referred to as 6.5 mm thick. Just wanted to clarify that figure 18.39 refers to the thickness of the edge of the fret board not the centre (as it's stated as 5 mm thick).
Refers to the edge of the fretboard; 5mm at fret 1 and 4.5mm at fret 8.

Thanks. That confirms the thicknesses. Yes, I did read that but I guess I mistook it at the time to be specific to the classical build. In my case, fortunately, carving the heel has provided sufficient pitch to get good alignment...phew!. However, I have only just noticed the reference to the RH which is a bit high at the moment and I suppose may mean that the alignment might not be perfect as the body will have a bit more belly. Maybe I should check that before gluing on the fret board! I'm sure this will all be a lot easier next time through!

Cheers
Richard

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Re: Bolt on bolt off neck - order of operations

Post by Richardl » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:57 am

Hi again. I have done something a bit dumb, planing the peg head veneer to get the correct 15 mm overall thickness resulting in a ledge rather then a recess for the nut, if that makes sense. Does the nut need to sit in a pocket or can it sit on a ledge with some epoxy holding it? Other option is I can cut the ledge off the fretboard and chisel down to the neck wood, just runs the risk of an untidy job.

What would you recommend?

Thanks
Richard
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Re: Bolt on bolt off neck - order of operations

Post by Richardl » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:04 am

I suppose another alternative is a nicely shaped 3 mm thick ebony fillet glued behind the nut?

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Re: Bolt on bolt off neck - order of operations

Post by Trevor Gore » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:37 am

The simple option is to do nothing. Once strung up the nut will sit there quite happily. A single drop of superglue could be used to prevent it dropping out whilst stringing.

If you want to retain a channel, the challenge is keeping the bottom of the slot flat. Whatever you do, don't remove all the thickness of the ledge on the fretboard, because you will almost certainly end up with the bottom of the nut slot below the level of the fretboard, which is not a good look. If you go this route, a flush cut saw and a narrow chisel is the way to go. Always cut from the edges inward to avoid chip-out. A custom made sanding stick matching the width of the slot will help you level the bottom if it proves too difficult using just the chisel. It's always hard to match the accuracy of the routed ledge, though.

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Re: Bolt on bolt off neck - order of operations

Post by kiwigeo » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:27 am

You could just slap on another layer of veneer on the peghead. Drill through tuner holes from back side with a brad tip bit till tip just penetrates the upper surface of the new veneer and use this hole as a guide for the same bit drilling through from upper side of veneer.
Martin

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Re: Bolt on bolt off neck - order of operations

Post by Richardl » Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:04 pm

Thanks guys. Doing nothing is my preferred option :D . I have some fancy paua inlay in the peghead so cant really add another full layer on top.

I've been working on the bridge today. Opted for the traditional compensation route. Unfortunately I have routed the saddle rebate a bit wide for the 1/8" bone saddle I have (don't know how) and I only left 2 mm in the bottom thinking that would be enough. I can't for the life of me find a reference to the depth of this router cut so checked with Kinkead which says leave 3 mm - should have checked first!!

So the bridge is currently 10 mm thick and the slot is 8 mm deep. Is that sufficient meat in the bottom? Making another is fairly easy (apart from getting the wood) as I have made all the jigs now.

The other thing is, the low E string is, due to the arrangement of the drill holes, going to be quite close to the saddle. Is that OK, won't pull the pins out will it? If the bridge was 5 mm thick as stated in the book, it would be very close

Thanks

Richard
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Re: Bolt on bolt off neck - order of operations

Post by Trevor Gore » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:06 am

Richardl wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:04 pm
I can't for the life of me find a reference to the depth of this router cut...
Section 20.3.2, penultimate paragraph.
Richardl wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:04 pm
So the bridge is currently 10 mm thick and the slot is 8 mm deep. Is that sufficient meat in the bottom?
I wouldn't be worrying about it.
Richardl wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:04 pm
The other thing is, the low E string is, due to the arrangement of the drill holes, going to be quite close to the saddle. Is that OK, won't pull the pins out will it? If the bridge (saddle??) was 5 mm thick as stated in the book, it would be very close
In the book, the saddle isn't slanted (due to nut compensation), so not as close as you might think. The pins are unlikely to pull out, but with the 6th string hole that close to the saddle you'll get an upward curve of the string due to its bending stiffness making the action harder to predict. Pressing down on the string to kink it over the saddle seems to knacker the string and it loses a lot of response IME. I'd be making a new bridge for that reason.

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Re: Bolt on bolt off neck - order of operations

Post by Richardl » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:40 am

OK, thanks, so better to have the pins in a straight line if no nut compensation, I thought there was mention of a slanted saddle. Sorry, somehow missed the 6.5 mm deep slot. Yes, saddle not bridge. I'll make a new one.
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Richard

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Re: Bolt on bolt off neck - order of operations

Post by Richardl » Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:14 pm

Finally finished. Far from perfect but it's only number 2 so I'm pretty happy. Sounds good. That's the main thing. Thanks for all the help.
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Richard
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Re: Bolt on bolt off neck - order of operations

Post by kiwigeo » Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:48 pm

Nice work Richard. These Gore builds can be a challenge at times (my last one took 2 years) but when they're done its well worth the extra effort and you learn a whole lot in the process.
Martin

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Re: Bolt on bolt off neck - order of operations

Post by Richardl » Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:44 am

kiwigeo wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:48 pm
Nice work Richard. These Gore builds can be a challenge at times (my last one took 2 years) but when they're done its well worth the extra effort and you learn a whole lot in the process.
Thanks, yes learned a lot and have a much better idea for the next one...might make something simpler in the meantime...a coffee table perhaps. :D

Cheers
Richard

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Re: Bolt on bolt off neck - order of operations

Post by kiwigeo » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:47 pm

A coffee table yes...but make sure it's falcate braced :mrgreen:
Richardl wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:44 am
kiwigeo wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:48 pm
Nice work Richard. These Gore builds can be a challenge at times (my last one took 2 years) but when they're done its well worth the extra effort and you learn a whole lot in the process.
Thanks, yes learned a lot and have a much better idea for the next one...might make something simpler in the meantime...a coffee table perhaps. :D

Cheers
Richard
Martin

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Re: Bolt on bolt off neck - order of operations

Post by Richardl » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:47 pm

:lol:

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